Josh & Maddy Chance | Photograph by Adam Williams
Overview: Josh and Maddy Chance were high school sweethearts. The persistent football star and the resistant cheerleader. Over time, they’ve traveled near and far with their shared interests in farming, until deciding to put down roots, start a family and begin building Headwater Farms in the Arkansas Valley (Colo.), in recent years.
They talk with Adam Williams about their origin story together, their farming adventures in Hawaii and Europe, and the importance of community to their mission at Headwater Farms.
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SHOW NOTES, LINKS, CREDITS & TRANSCRIPT
The We Are Chaffee podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health.
Along with being distributed on podcast listening platforms (e.g. Spotify, Apple), We Are Chaffee is broadcast weekly at 2 p.m. on Tuesdays, on KHEN 106.9 community radio FM in Salida, Colo.
Josh & Maddy Chance | Headwater Farms
Website: headwaterfarmco.com
Instagram: instagram.com/headwater_farms
We Are Chaffee Podcast
Website: wearechaffeepod.com
Instagram: instagram.com/wearechaffeepod
CREDITS
We Are Chaffee Host, Producer & Photographer: Adam Williams
We Are Chaffee Engineer: Jon Pray
We Are Chaffee Community Advocacy Coordinator: Lisa Martin
Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment: Andrea Carlstrom
TRANSCRIPT
Note: Transcripts are produced using an automated transcription app. Although it is largely accurate, minor errors inevitably exist.
[Intro music, guitar instrumental]
[00:00:12] Adam Williams: Welcome to the We Are Chaffee Podcast, where we connect through conversations of community, humanness and well being in Chaffee County, Colorado. I’m Adam Williams.
Today I’m talking with Josh and Maddy Chance of Headwater Farms. Josh and Maddy were high school sweethearts, the persistent football star and the resistant cheerleader. Over time, they’ve traveled near and far with their shared interests in farming until deciding to put down roots, start a family, and begin building Headwater Farms here in the Arkansas Valley in recent years.
The three of us talk about their origin story as a couple back in high school in Colorado Springs, and how Maddy got Josh and his roommates to start growing vegetables in college. That experience seems to have been an important one for Josh, though he also grew up with, as he puts it, “loving the simple, good country fun” that he had on summer visits to see family in Alabama. That’s where his great-grandmother had a big farm. Maddy also grew up with some family roots in growing herself.
We talk about the traveling adventures in farming that Maddy and Josh have shared, including periods of time in Hawaii and Europe, and how they chose Buena Vista as their destination for Headwater Farms. We also talk about, as Maddy puts it, the Tetris puzzle of sustaining an agricultural business, fitting together the growing, selling and community aspects of their work. We also talk about how their CSA works, or their community supported agriculture program.
And we talk about the mission they have for Headwater Farms, among other things, like the hope and faith and resilience, and the humility that farming requires, and what their vision for Headwater Farms looks like as they continue to build it.
The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public health. Go to wearechaffeepod.com for all things We Are Chaffee Podcast that includes episode show notes and transcripts. It’s where you can subscribe to the email newsletter too. Connect with us on Instagram @wearechaffeepod and if you want to reach me, details are in the comments at the end of the episode.
Okay, now off we go with Josh and Maddy Chance.
[Transition music, guitar instrumental]
[00:02:24] Adam Williams: You two met in high school and I’m curious how this happened. I mean, is this in biology class? Were you in the cafeteria? Tell me this story. What happened?
[00:02:32] Josh Chance: Yeah, I love telling this story. Yeah, we were in the cafeteria and we were all gathering around. Maddy says that we met in eighth grade first. We did, but the. The time that I truly remember is that time in the cafeteria. And yeah, we were all just hanging out and Maddy and I got to talking with one another and it was just A really beautiful, innocent little moment where we connected. And I feel like ever since then we’ve just. We’ve been buddies. Although there are some times there where we kind of fell off, but we always came back around and. Yeah, so throughout high school, we hung out and dated on and off and. Yeah, you tell. You’re part of it.
[00:03:19] Maddy Chance: Yeah, actually it was previous to eighth grade. I was homeschooled in sixth and seventh grade. But all of our friends from elementary school went to the same middle school. So I would go with friends to events like dances or sporting events. And actually, the first time I ever met Josh, he was the date of one of my friends to a middle school dance that I came along to that dance.
[00:03:49] Adam Williams: You don’t remember that, Josh?
[00:03:51] Josh Chance: I don’t remember it.
[00:03:53] Adam Williams: How big was this high school? So when we say cafeteria, like I went to a high school that was, I mean, maximum 500 kids. And it was in a small rural town, not unlike where we are. So, you know, most of those kids were familiar to me and things like that. So I’m trying to picture, I mean, one, where did you grow up? What size of high school? Like, what were the odds of your groups coming together and for you to connect in that way?
[00:04:16] Josh Chance: Yeah, high school was. I would say it was kind of medium sized. We had about 500 kids in our graduating class.
[00:04:24] Adam Williams: So that’s pretty large for most of us. That’s like a high school of 2,000 kids.
[00:04:29] Josh Chance: Yeah, it’s about that.
[00:04:30] Adam Williams: That’s a small town.
[00:04:31] Josh Chance: Yeah, that’s true. It’s. Yeah, compared to Buena Vista, that’s very true. So, yeah, we grew up in Colorado Springs and we went to Pine Creek High School. And yeah, I feel like we had a lot of mutual friends at the time and just. Yeah, we linked up and got connected and started hanging out and started going to movies together. I feel like that was the thing to do back in the day. We’d go to the mall and go to movies and.
Yeah, our group in high school was very tight knit and it was kind of a cool thing. Cause I feel like a lot of that group is still. We still hang out and we’re still together.
[00:05:15] Adam Williams: Were you in the same graduating class?
[00:05:17] Josh Chance: We were, Yep, same class.
[00:05:18] Adam Williams: Okay, so things lined up where you also then might have been in same subject classes, like during the day.
[00:05:25] Josh Chance: Yeah.
[00:05:25] Adam Williams: Passing each other in the hall, something.
[00:05:27] Maddy Chance: Oh, yeah. I mean, yeah, we saw each other every day. I mean, I think truthfully, we ended up signing up for the same classes once we started dating and we were friends I don’t know how likely it would have been we possibly could have ended up in a similar class, but there were a lot of classes, a lot of options.
[00:05:48] Adam Williams: It’s funny how that happens.
[00:05:49] Josh Chance: Yeah, yeah. Meet up in the hallway.
[00:05:52] Maddy Chance: Yeah. I think initially, what. When we met again that day in the cafeteria, again, it was through some of my friends. So he was friends with a few of the girls that I was friends with, and so he came over to say hi to them, and that’s ultimately how we ended up connecting.
[00:06:14] Adam Williams: Maddy, what was Josh like in high school at that time? Right. Describe who you saw. Obviously, you liked what you saw.
[00:06:23] Maddy Chance: Oh, this is a good question.
Josh was one of our biggest football stars.
[00:06:29] Adam Williams: Oh, yeah.
[00:06:29] Maddy Chance: Yeah, he was. He was Josh Chance. Like, he was athletic, and he was.
Adam Williams: Are you blushing, Josh? That’s funny. Behind the beard, I think you’re blushing a little bit.
[00:06:42] Maddy Chance: Yeah. I mean, most people knew of him, and I would say, in general, he was kind to everyone and. Yeah, really loved sports and just was there to have a good time. And so I will say, I think it’s worth noting for the record, when, you know, we talked that first day, I could kind of see, like, something in his eye, like, oh, you’re. You’re a new person. I don’t know. And, you know, kind of this draw. And I, right off the bat, kind of resisted that pretty hard. I thought he was nice, but I was like, “I don’t know.”
[00:07:20] Adam Williams: Why?
[00:07:21] Maddy Chance: Well, because he was. He was lively and fun and knew everyone. Yeah.
[00:07:27] Adam Williams: Very confident, star football player. You got to be walking the halls with some confidence.
[00:07:30] Maddy Chance: Oh, yeah, definitely. And I kind of like to fly under the radar a little bit, so I was like, I don’t know if I need this kind of attention.
[00:07:41] Adam Williams: Did you feel like you were on the same page when it came to academics? Like. Like, was he just as likely to go home and do homework next to you or. Josh, was she an influence that was maybe positive in that way, you know, however that might have gone.
[00:07:55] Josh Chance: I’ll give you Maddy’s early academic standing. So she showed up late to school probably every single day. She never did her homework.
[00:08:06] Adam Williams: Wow. Okay. I read this wrong.
[00:08:08] Josh Chance: Yeah, she. Let’s see, where else. Yeah, you didn’t get very good grades that. Those first couple years. She just didn’t really care about school, which is really.
[00:08:19] Maddy Chance: I thought of it as busy work.
[00:08:21] Adam Williams: I understand. I get that.
[00:08:23] Josh Chance: But it’s really funny because Maddy is. She’s so smart and so intelligent, and I almost feel like it was kind of the reverse effect. In a little bit. In ways like I always had to keep my grades up. And I don’t know, I was. That was just the family that I grew up in.
[00:08:43] Adam Williams: Okay. So I was going to say, was it eligibility for sports? Which of course it is, but it also then was your family in the expectations?
[00:08:50] Josh Chance: Yeah, I think that there is. There’s high expectations there. And I. I will say, but I’m. I’m not the most academic guy either. So I just did what I had to do to get by and make good grades. And, yeah, I feel like over the years, you know, we ended up taking classes together. And I think that there was actually one instance where I copied a test. Maddy and I sat next to each other and I copied her test word for word. And then the teacher. But the teacher knew that I did that, and she actually gave Maddy the lower score because she knew that Maddy had let me do it.
[00:09:30] Maddy Chance: She’s teaching me a lesson.
[00:09:31] Josh Chance: Yeah, she’s teaching Maddy a lesson.
[00:09:33] Adam Williams: I thought maybe it was reputation based on, okay, I know that his homework. I know that Maddy’s a little more indifferent to this. So she maybe assumed who was the guilty party, but instead, that was sort of her reverse way of. Of handing out consequence. Did you not get punished for that?
[00:09:49] Josh Chance: I don’t remember.
[00:09:50] Adam Williams: Why did you copy word for word? Come on, man.
[00:09:52] Josh Chance: I was bad. I didn’t have good academic integrity back in the day. And I. That’s, you know, I. I would change that if I had to go back.
[00:09:59] Adam Williams: You know what? I’m going to jump in that canoe with you because I don’t know even that my wife knows this. You know, I used to get grades fairly EAS will have to acknowledge that sometimes that came along with getting test answers, parading the back and forth with friends in the halls on the way, because we just didn’t care. So, I mean, like, Maddy, I saw it as. This is just pointless. And so, yeah, we might do some of that just to get through, because I could show up to a Friday, have five classes with Tess, and have forgotten that I had a test in any class. But they seemed to, like, sync up. Right? So I knew if I got to my first class and there was a test, I’m like, oh, there’s. I’m testing all day. And I did not prepare.
[00:10:43] Josh Chance: Yeah, I was bad studying. I was bad at preparing. And yeah, those are. Looking back on it. You know, I wish I wasn’t always that way, but, yeah, I feel like we had a group of friends where it was a. There was an Exchange of knowledge going on. Yeah. So we all kind of had our.
[00:11:02] Maddy Chance: Strong, which, you know, really maybe that is the bigger learning of high school is this social, you know, creating systems, creating, you know, hierarchies of how you work together.
[00:11:17] Adam Williams: You know, we look back on that. For me, it’s kind of a funny fond memory in a way. I do feel the integrity thing, like you’re saying, Josh, I’m like, but those are also system imposed rules. It really kind of doesn’t matter. Like, those were created rules. I understand where, you know, the stuff comes from. And I’m not sure that’s always the most important thing.
[00:11:38] Josh Chance: Yeah.
[00:11:39] Adam Williams: So I can kind of look back on it with laughter, you know, just as I have memories with my friends and be like, yeah, that’s how we got through some of this stuff that didn’t really matter.
[00:11:47] Maddy Chance: Yeah.
[00:11:48] Josh Chance: Yeah. I feel like if the positive that came out of that sort of thing was like learning how to collaborate and work, work with one another and figure out, you know, where to place certain individual strong, strong suits.
[00:12:05] Maddy Chance: Delegation.
[00:12:05] Josh Chance: Yeah, delegation.
I don’t know, but. But I would like to kind of backtrack a little bit because, you know, you asked Maddy about her perspective of me.
[00:12:16] Adam Williams: Yeah.
[00:12:16] Josh Chance: And my perspective of Maddy was, you know, she was kind of new and intriguing and I didn’t really know her. I’d seen her around, obviously. Obviously to me she was, she was beautiful on the exterior. But what I, what I saw in her from the start was this innate, like, truthfulness. And she was just. She was who she was, you know, or I feel like a lot of times at that age, a lot of people were like, you know, trying to be someone who they. They truly weren’t and trying to be like, popular, dress cool or this and that. And Maddy was just, she was just herself and she was honest. And to me, that was like such a cool thing. And I felt like I could be myself around her too.
[00:13:02] Adam Williams: I can appreciate that and how, you know, as a teenager, to identify that sort of trait in, in another person as special to you and meaningful and what mattered is pretty cool. And that the two of you connected so early on. We have a little bit of dispute about how early that was, but I’m always kind of interested in that story, which is why I wanted to start there. Because honestly, for me, what I saw with two much older brothers, parents, everybody got married by the time they were 20, 21, started having kids, even not too long after that, depending on which person we’re talking about. And then they all got divorced. At some point. So for me, as the youngest coming along, all I could think was the older I can get before I decide there is a person I’m going to create a life with that’s probably better for me. And honestly, with my wife, who I’ve now been with for more than 20 years, I didn’t even want that then.
[00:13:58] Adam Williams: I had totally different ideas of my life at that time. And then it got sidetracked with the life that I now have, which of course is great. But to talk with people who I meet on occasion where they’ve met and connected in this way so early on and as we’re about to get into, the two of you then have created this life that is centered around farming.
There’s a lot of stories in that, I think, and I just think that’s pretty cool. Well, let me ask this. How did you identify that or when did either of you, you can take turns answering or what have you. When did you decide, Wow, I can’t believe this person that I know that I feel this way about life. I don’t need to go out and get more experience and find somebody when I’m 35. I already know. How did you do that so young?
[00:14:46] Josh Chance: Yeah, I feel like, you know, it’s funny you say that because we did have that draw to one another. And I feel like we tried towards the end of high school and going into college, we tried really hard to like, we separated, you know, and tried to get away from it. And through that we kind of went our own ways and I think discovered our own sort of interests and whatnot. But as much as we tried, like life always brought us back together.
And it was kind of interesting because through that we, we both from our, you know, traditional upbringing of like, you know, I was the high school football, she was high school cheerleader and then she got into, she got into yoga and I got into just this kind of idea of like self sufficiency and like simple living. And I feel like we ended up, our interest ended up gearing more towards the alternative. And yeah, through that we linked back up and we realized, oh, we kind of have these interests in this alternative lifestyle in a sense.
[00:15:59] Adam Williams: Will you tell me more about alternative? Because something that could come to mind for me is things like punk and talking as kids, as skaters and what, like there are different lanes we could take with alternative.
[00:16:10] Josh Chance: Totally. Yeah. That was like those sort of things were a bit of an aspect of it, but I think just more of like we weren’t really interested in going the traditional route of, like, getting a job at a corporation and working the 9 to 5. We both wanted to, like, travel and see the world a bit and do things that I think that, like, filled our cup, if that makes sense.
[00:16:36] Maddy Chance: We were more interested in learning about things we were interested in than something that would give us, you know, a very secure career. At that time, everyone at that time, you know, through the end of high school, the recommendation was, you know, pick a college, get funding, student loans, if you need them, and just pick a career that’s going to give you a stable, secure career.
[00:17:05] Adam Williams: Right.
[00:17:06] Maddy Chance: And I think, yeah, we just. We were really passionate about lifestyle things like health and wellness and being outside and, you know, music and moving our bodies, and those were the things that we wanted to learn about rather than, you know, picking the most financially stable career.
[00:17:30] Adam Williams: Let’s go back to the question, Maddy, where. How did you know or when that, you know, Josh really is who I want to do all this with.
[00:17:41] Maddy Chance: Yeah. For me, like I said early on in high school, I was pretty resistant. I held off on really diving in for what feels like a while to me. Josh was. He was putting in a lot of effort to get me to hang out and to be his girl. And, you know, I resisted that for quite a while. But when I finally kind of was like, okay, you know, he’s nice, he’s cute, he’s persistent.
And I kind of started hanging out with him. And at that point, it kind of took off, you know, a little bit like wildfire. It was like, oh, okay, now I’m in pretty deep. Suddenly, like, held off for a long time, and now I’m totally infatuated with this person.
[00:18:35] Adam Williams: What grade was this? Did we say that?
[00:18:37] Maddy Chance: You know, that was freshman year when it started. I would say it did not. You know, the wildfire didn’t start until probably junior year. Yeah, sophomore, junior year. Yeah. So I held off for a while.
[00:18:52] Adam Williams: That is a good while, especially as a kid. Right. I mean, months can seem like forever. And so, yeah, yeah, we got. You held it for a while, but then still we’re young. And even though Josh has described, oh, there were times where we tried to not have this be forever. You couldn’t get away from it.
[00:19:09] Maddy Chance: Yeah. So we were pretty hot and heavy. Full junior senior year. And then the first time we broke up after we were pretty, you know, serious was Christmas break of senior year. There was, you know, some classic adolescent drama involved with that, but we.
Yeah, we just couldn’t quite fully sever that tie. And so he ended up going to school actually at Adams State in Alamosa. I ended up going up to Fort Collins with a bunch of my girlfriends. And still, like he mentioned, our high school group was really tight knit. And we are not the only high school sweethearts from our group. There are several, actually that are still together. Yes.
[00:19:56] Adam Williams: Wow.
[00:19:57] Maddy Chance: I know. Pretty unique. And so like those girls were my friends, the guys were his friends. And so we would still see each other. We, we would go down to Alamosa or they would come up to Fort Collins.
[00:20:09] Adam Williams: That’s. How many hours away is that?
[00:20:11] Maddy Chance: I think it was five maybe.
[00:20:13] Josh Chance: It’s a ways.
[00:20:14] Adam Williams: It’s a bit of an effort, I suppose when you’re young, in college age, it’s not a big deal, but that’s, that’s some distance. Did you go to play football there?
[00:20:21] Josh Chance: Yeah.
[00:20:22] Adam Williams: Okay.
[00:20:22] Josh Chance: Yeah, for a little bit. And then I went to Northern Arizona, Northern Arizona University.
[00:20:28] Adam Williams: Flagstaff?
[00:20:29] Josh Chance: Yep, over in Flagstaff. And it just so happened that around that time Maddy ended up. I moved out there and then Maddy ended up moving down to the Phoenix area to study yoga and. Is that right? Yoga? Yeah.
I say that as a vague statement, but her study was very in depth through the Iyengar yoga practice. But so through that, yeah, we linked up in Arizona and this kind of went on for a little period of time here and there. We would link up and then I think a year or so went by and we were like, all right, what are, what are we doing? We love each other. Let’s stop trying to deny it. And she moved up to Flagstaff. I’m obviously missing like skipping a bunch of details, but she moved up to Flagstaff and yeah, we, that’s, that’s when it came back around and we got serious and then I guess that’s kind of the, the beginning stages to our story into the like agriculture and farming world.
[00:21:40] Adam Williams: Yeah, let’s. Let’s get into the farming. I know both of you have family history with that. Josh, I think you have family generations, maybe even in Alabama that were farmers. That’s not where you grew up. You didn’t grow up on the farm, but you got to spend time there. Maddy, you also have some of that influence. So I’m curious if we can briefly talk because there are some stories you guys did end up getting out in the world and traveling and doing a lot of interesting things before coming here to the Arc Valley to do what you do. And I want to hear about that. But first, maybe the influence of what some of the family farming history for each of you. Maybe how that planted a seed, no pun intended, for the idea to want to be farmers, but also maybe how you learned or something along the way that has helped you.
[00:22:24] Maddy Chance: Yeah, so it’s really interesting. I think, you know, at this point we can kind of come full circle and see these parallels with, you know, family experience. But as Josh mentioned earlier, for us, when we first kind of went this direction, it felt like we were, you know, going an alternative route. Right. So there was. It didn’t feel like a family influence necessarily. So the way that I recall it going is in college at Northern Arizona University, he and all of his buddies live together. And I learned about this plant start csa and I kind of came to them and I’m like, hey, because I didn’t have a yard in my. Where I lived just down the road and kind of pitched this to them like, hey, let’s do this plant start CSA and have a garden. And we could do it in your guys front yard. It gets good sun.
And they all kind of bought in and it was, it was really fun. They ended up, you know, kind of going around scouring the blocks for old furniture that was free or like free materials. And they brought all this stuff back and made this really imaginative, funky garden with all these little containers. I think even there was like an old toilet that they had brought and they threw some soil and, you know, other materials in there. And I remember thinking like, oh, you know, this isn’t quite what I had in mind, you know, growing up.
My mom was a master herbalist and she had a big greenhouse and proper beds. And she was just. She’s a great grower still. And so I had some of that in me from her. And you know, with that kind of health oriented lifestyle, I think that’s where I was drawn to this and kind of why I brought it to them. But they created this really funky little garden. We got some soil, they went and picked up some composted manure from like this goat farm and they really got into it.
[00:24:36] Adam Williams: Did that surprise you?
[00:24:37] Maddy Chance: Yeah, I think at first, when I first was like, hey, we should do this thing, I was, I wasn’t certain that they would be on board, but they were and they were excited about it. And I think they got even more excited about it as the garden grew and as we started to get food out of it.
I remember being, you know, going down to the brewery and hearing one of his roommates, you know, tell the ladies about his garden and like, what he was growing and.
Yeah, so they ended up really loving it. And from my perspective, I feel like something really clicked in Josh because at this point, right. We’re in college, they’re dumpster diving. They’re trying to be resourceful and, you know, find these ways to, like, eat and feed each other. That is. Yeah. Like saving wasted food or they’re just trying. Trying to be resourceful in that way. And so I feel like something clicked for Josh when he was like, wow, we just, you know, we paid small amount of money, got all these little tiny plants, and now it’s feeding all of us. We’re like giving our neighbors zucchinis and.
Yeah, I don’t know. That’s kind of how I remember when.
[00:25:56] Adam Williams: We say dumpster diving. Are we saying. Because you are. We’re talking about, like, freeganism, things where you’re trying to get food that has been thrown away and that’s what you eat, or are we saying more resources for the garden?
[00:26:09] Josh Chance: Yeah, like food that’s being thrown out, that is still in. In good condition. We would. Well, what I. What I can consider still edible, but, you know, I, like, expired a day or whatever.
[00:26:21] Adam Williams: So now we’re getting into that alternative thing.
[00:26:23] Josh Chance: Right.
[00:26:23] Adam Williams: Because that, I mean, especially because that is not, you know, what. What everybody does.
[00:26:28] Josh Chance: Yeah, that’s true. Yeah. I think I’ll. I’ll backtrack a little bit and. And tell a little bit. You. You asked the question about family and kind of upbringing and that it.
We have. We have roots in agriculture, in a sense. And. And yeah, I grew up in. In the suburbs, so, like, never doing this at all. My dad was military, you know, grew up playing sports, so like, total different lifestyle. But we would always go back to Alabama, visit family. And my maw Maw, which was my great grandma, had a big farm. And those were some of the most fun times of my childhood. You know, just playing in mud puddles and running through the corn fields and.
[00:27:12] Adam Williams: Just getting earthy with it.
[00:27:13] Josh Chance: Yeah, just getting earthy with it. It was just simple, good country fun, and I loved that. And it felt different from growing up in the neighborhoods. But fast forward a little bit.
In college, I came up on this book. It’s called The Good Life. And I don’t know how I came up on it. I think I was looking at, in the library at self sufficiency or something like that. And this book came up, and it was a book written by Helen and Scott Nearing, who are. They’re kind of pioneers in, like, local food systems and agriculture. It’s really intriguing book, but they’re essentially economists in New York. And during the Great Depression, they left New York City and bought a place out in Vermont. And basically the book was like, you don’t need money to live and.
Which is a. Like I’ve. I had, I had that glorified in my mind, you know, but they had created, you know, a homestead and grew all their own food, and they’re like vegetarians. And it was like, it’s a four hour work day and you work four hours in the garden, and then we play music in the afternoon and we have a cash crop of maple syrup that helps us get away in the wintertime. And I was like, whoa, that, that sounds amazing. You don’t need money to live. That’s great.
[00:28:45] Adam Williams: This was nearly a hundred years ago when things were more affordable.
[00:28:48] Josh Chance: Yeah, yeah, A carton of eggs cost 5 cents and whatever. But, but, but that kind of, that really like, sparked my interest in, I guess just having the desire to grow my own food and then build my own house one day and, you know, do. Do these things work with my hands and produce for my own, you know, needs. And so then we fast forward.
Maddy talked a lot about our first garden. And actually I’m going to backtrack a little bit from that because right before that garden we went on a backpacking trip. And it was an extended time. I think it was like around 20 days or so. And Maddy had sent me this really adorable little daily box that had little quotes on it or little tidbits on the area. And so every day I’d, you know, be sleeping in my tent and open up one of these things. And I was going to do this project on astronomy. And then one of the cards was about a lichen called Ousnia. And it just so happened that this lichen was. Was everywhere. And I don’t know if you’re familiar with usnia, but I am not. It’s like nature’s.
What would you call it? I don’t want to use the term vaccine, but antibiotic. It’s like nature’s antibiotic, in a sense, has really powerful properties and we still use it when we get sick, whatnot. But that revealed to me like, the power of plants.
And so I. A whole world was opened up to me, and my professor gave me this book that was edible and medicinal plants of the Mountain West. So the whole time while we were backpacking, we were. We were discovering plants. And you can eat this. Oh, this is good for a little cut. And it was like this whole new world was opened up. That was incredibly intriguing and Then right after that, I got back and we had our garden and yeah, we just ate. I think we bought a big old bag of rice, a big old bag of potatoes. And we’re like eating potatoes and rice and veggies. We had a roommate that summer from Rwanda and he was a Rwandan refugee. And just so happened he was walking and he was like, hey, do you guys have a place to stay? And we were like, yeah, our other roommate is gone for the summer. You can stay with us. But he would cook these meals that were amazing from like potatoes, rice and greens from the garden.
[00:31:41] Adam Williams: That’s an incredible connection that you could not have predicted or necessarily asked for. Just a random person, a Rwandan refugee walking by and he can add to this sort of family connected environment. Yeah, it’s so cool.
[00:31:57] Josh Chance: Yeah, it was just a. Yeah. Random, random thing.
[00:32:01] Maddy Chance: And short lived, you know. When he left after that summer, we never saw him again.
[00:32:06] Adam Williams: When was this? What kind of ballpark time area are we talking about? When you were in School there?
[00:32:11] Maddy Chance: 2012, I think.
[00:32:13] Josh Chance: Yeah, around that. I think so would have been.
[00:32:16] Adam Williams: And after that, then you, you both, you end up in Hawaii somewhere soon after. Right. I mean, that’s. If we follow this with a little bit of chronology at this point, you go off to Hawaii and you’re farming there.
[00:32:28] Maddy Chance: Well, actually, yeah. So how we got to Hawaii and you might want to add to this is interesting. So Josh was. His degree at NAU was a degree in parks and recreation. And he really loved the experiential learning aspect of that. So he had this newfound passion for, you know, plants and gardens.
And we had a friend that he was buddies with that went to school with him. And it was in the garden one night when everyone’s over, you know, hanging out that they kind of started talking and he was like, hey, you should get in contact with this guy that I grew up with. You know, he’s a little older and he grew up in Hawaii and he was like, he runs the school gardens in the town that I grew up in in Hawaii. And maybe you could, you know, do that as your internship. And so, yeah, you might want to speak to how that kind of unraveled.
[00:33:25] Josh Chance: But yeah, we, we really just, we reached out to him and he was like, yeah, I can’t pay you or anything, but you can, you can come help me out. Sure. And so we were like, wow, that sounds like a cool opportunity. I’d get my internship hours and we’ll just figure it out. You know, we were very, I feel like at that Point in time, we just kind of went for it. And I’m really glad we did because we got connected with my friend’s family out in Hawaii and then this individual at the school gardens. And I feel like. And I’ve recognized this in everywhere where we’ve been.
Whenever you go to a place and are farming or gardening, I don’t know how it ends up. But you just end up getting connected with the community in a certain way and obviously through other people. Maddy got a job, like, right away, the stars aligned, you know, and, yeah, her job was actually great in connecting us with a lot of people as well, because she worked at the local coffee shop.
It was a small town in Hawaii, and I helped in the gardens, and Maddy would come and help here and there too, and we were working with kids in the gardens. It was really, really cool. And Hawaii has really good programs out there for school garden programs. Obviously you can grow all year round out there, so it makes a difference.
[00:35:01] Adam Williams: But you have said that you learned a unique set of growing techniques out there. And I’m curious. I mean, if I’m honest about it, I don’t know much about gardening. My dad had vegetable gardens when I was a kid. At times, I grew up in a rural area, but I was not a farm kid. I was a town kid. My parents were teachers. I don’t know what it means when you talk about techniques for growing.
There’s got to be so much more knowledge and skill to this than what the basic consumer, like myself must understand. Like, it’s not just, you know, cut a hole in the ground, throw a seed in, bury it, water it. We’re good, right? Like, so what. What do you mean when there are unique growing techniques there? And then I’m also curious if I add on to this question. We’re here in the mountains in central Colorado at this point. These are very different environments. And I’m curious if those are learnings that you’re able to carry with you even today, or if it’s kind of was environment specific and then you have to come here and adapt and figure out new things all over again.
[00:36:02] Josh Chance: Yeah, I’m really thankful how it all worked out, because when we got connected with. His name’s Jared. He was the individual who ran the school gardens out in Hawaii. Got connected with him. We had. I mean, for me personally, I had only had that one garden. You know, I didn’t really. It just so happened that it all worked out nicely that first year. And we grew things and they were healthy. And so I didn’t really know much at all about it. And Jared was an individual who is.
He had an approach to gardening and farming that was very, I guess, naturalistic in a sense. And there’s a term called agroforestry where you try to mimic the patterns of the forest, but for agriculture and food purposes. So he was doing this out in Hawaii. We had a. He was planting out a bunch of trees, a bunch of sugar cane and these staple crops to the Hawaiian Islands. But doing it in a way where we weren’t using any machines. It was probably like an acre garden, but we were doing it all by hand.
We didn’t really have any tools besides a shovel and a rake and maybe a digging fork. And so we would, you know, harvest when things were ready to harvest, and we’d prep new beds for planting avocado trees and things like that. And we’d, we’d cut things down and mulch. And it was just a very. Yeah, it was a very, I guess, rhythmic approach. And it was very possible that I, I could have gotten right into more of like an industrial farming system. You know, where you’re using, you’re using heavy machinery and chemicals and the whole nine yards.
[00:38:06] Adam Williams: Had you gone to school for that, it seems like that would have been quite possibly. Then let’s say you even started your own farm or somehow connected with your family in Alabama, like, whoever. It seems very likely then that you’re much more likely to go into that direction. Right. Where you’re gonna have million dollar tractors and GPS systems and all the spray chemicals and things and try to make it as big as you can, as corporate as you can.
[00:38:31] Josh Chance: Without a doubt. Yeah, that’s exactly right. And you know, there’s a place for that to a certain extent. Like there’s a lot of mouths to feed and whatnot.
[00:38:41] Adam Williams: Sure, yeah.
[00:38:41] Josh Chance: But yeah, it was.
[00:38:43] Adam Williams: We’re talking about very different, just different experiences and maybe intentions there.
[00:38:47] Josh Chance: Right, exactly. So, yeah, when we, when we talk about techniques, I guess the, the first true technique that I was exposed to was kind of this, this permaculture agroforestry, like, very interesting. Yeah. Holistic approach to farming and gardening. And that’s, you know, always stuck with me and, and my ideas and philosophies. And I’ve had a lot of great teachers throughout the years that have shown me different little tips and tricks and whatnot and different tech techniques.
[00:39:23] Adam Williams: You could say the philosophical piece of that is what feels to me, based on what you’re saying, to be very critical, like very, very important to so much of this, because the different tools you use, you know, that can change. Maybe that changes again with the climate or the environment situation. But to have the philosophy and have. Be able to connect with community like that, that’s around. How do we really want to, with intention, consciously go about what our passion is here? Yeah. What do we want our purpose as farmers to be?
[00:39:55] Josh Chance: Yeah, exactly. And I think that have. Having that holistic approach as the foundation of what we do in terms of agriculture. I feel like it’s. It’s beneficial in an agriculture system. It’s beneficial to our own sanity. It’s beneficial to the natural systems and the health of the food that we produce and things like that. So. Yeah. Do you have anything to add to that, Maddy?
[00:40:27] Maddy Chance: Yeah, I mean, I didn’t spend much time with you and Jared necessarily, but we did also in Hawaii, we got connected with a small market garden production farm. So a couple that grew in a little more of a structured format, but still using kind of holistic approaches. Not necessarily as holistic, I would say. Jared was not only, you know, he was very holistic, but there was also a cultural aspect there as well, like Hawaiian crops and bringing, you know, these children into the garden and teaching them some cultural things as well, which was beautiful. But where I spent more time was with. What was their name? Turnip Wagon. Yep, Turnip Wagon.
And so it was this couple, and they were, you know, at the time, they felt like they were an older couple, but they were 40. Yeah, they were.
[00:41:33] Josh Chance: Gary was. He was 80 years old and out there at that point.
[00:41:37] Maddy Chance: He was 80.
[00:41:38] Josh Chance: He was close to it.
[00:41:39] Maddy Chance: Maybe in his 70s, maybe.
[00:41:40] Josh Chance: Yeah, yeah, maybe 80 is an exaggeration. But he was an old, old man out there turning soil by hand. Yeah, doing. Doing it. Gardening.
[00:41:51] Maddy Chance: But he would. And when I say more structured, I mean, you know, they were growing for the resorts, so they were growing microgreens and edible flowers. And, you know, the, The. The intention, the purpose was different, but they were still incredible growers. And so I was able to help out on those projects a little bit more. So I would say it was. It was a really cool experience for Josh because he got to see kind of both aspects of this, like this very, you know, down to. Down to earth, like, cultural side of it that they’re trying to, like, keep alive in the community and in the children to understand their cultural crops and how they’re grown. And then there was this other side that, you know, was also really important for us to learn, which we carried into our future projects and farms Was, you know, how do you sell crops that you grow and what do people want and how do they want it?
[00:42:52] Adam Williams: Honestly, those are really good questions that I’ve had for a very long time, since where I grew up. Like I said, it was rural, but I had no connection to that, no experience with it. And I’ve always kind of wondered, how does this work when you are self employed as a farmer? You’re dependent on seasons, you’re dependent on different things and then you have economic forces. How does this work to like have buyers and know how much you can grow and sell and know, like, I just, I’m so oblivious of how it works. And yet it’s such a fundamental piece of what we all, everywhere on the planet need.
[00:43:27] Maddy Chance: Yeah, yeah, it’s true. It’s a puzzle piece. It’s Tetris, you know, and it’s a part of the fun, but it is. You’re always tweaking it. I’ll let him speak to it more. But I will say there’s like, there’s the safe things, right? Like if you go into a grocery store, you are certain that you will be able to find broccoli, carrots, lettuce, you know, these things. Corn. Yeah. And so you know that the general public, they recognize those, you know, 10 to 20 crops and that they’ll buy it because they have a recipe that calls for it. But then there’s the farmer side, like the passion side where you’re like, oh, you know, this crop is so cool. It’s not in mainstream, you know, it’s not in all the recipes, but it’s so delicious and it has all this great nutritional value. And you know, when you look back of how it was bread or like where it came from, you know, every farmer has their few crops that they grow that they’re always trying to like expose, you know, the public to that they’re trying to, you know, convince them, try this thing. It’s so good.
[00:44:39] Adam Williams: That’s where we end up with associations, trade associations on behalf of certain crops or whatever. Right. With these marketing campaigns trying to get us to know about and care about and see in a new light that I don’t have one coming to mind. Pistachio is one coming to mind. Okay.
[00:44:55] Josh Chance: Like peanut butter.
[00:44:56] Adam Williams: Okay.
[00:44:57] Josh Chance: Peanuts were a crop where George Washington Carver down in Alabama, the, the boll weevil was like wiping out cotton. And he saw the value of peanuts as a rotational and crop that would feed the soil and this and that, but there was no market for it. So he was this like Scientist that he created this pamphlet of like, you know, 200, 300 uses for the peanut. And he.
Most people think he created peanut butter, but he didn’t. But. Yeah, yeah, you know, but. But like, peanut butter is one of those type of things. You know, you can eat peanuts raw, but how many people just, like, eat peanuts raw?
[00:45:37] Adam Williams: That’s such a great example. Because it’s very difficult for me to sit here and think, how are peanuts not a thing? You know, because it’s so ubiquitous now. It’s everywhere. You know, in our grocery stores. Peanut butter, you know, eating peanuts, whatever, put them in our Snickers bars. You know, it’s. They are so everywhere that to imagine there was a time where people had to be convinced there was value to this. That’s a great example.
[00:46:02] Josh Chance: This is kind of a fun role that the farmer gets to play. And. And yeah, I think often individuals farming is really interesting because you get to wear a lot of hats. And often you view a farmer as a grower, like a gardener, a grower of plants. Right. But it’s a farmer. To be a good farmer, you have to be a good salesperson and a good marketer and soil scientist, a plumber and carpenter.
[00:46:35] Adam Williams: To understand, I mean, rotation of crops, right? When to let a field lay fallow. To understand, like you were talking about how, I guess, the seeds are bred, like, what the product. Actually, it’s not all a given. Right. You have to have good product, good seeds to create good product, don’t you? You have to know how to cultivate that with proper soil science. All kinds of things that I know more than I. Than I thought. But I’m just. I’m just using words. I don’t actually know how to do any of it.
[00:47:07] Maddy Chance: Yeah, well, and it kind of comes back to what you were saying earlier as, like, you know, how is Hawaii different than here? You know, in the high mountains? And. Yeah, you do. You have to understand a lot about growing in order to see those differences and make the right choices. Because there’s choices to make when it comes to soil. There’s choices to make when it comes to the varieties that you choose. You know, are these varieties that do well in colder weather or warmer weather, are they adapted to these regions? You know, and where do you buy those seeds from? Can you buy it from a place that has adapted seeds that, you know, grows in this type of environment? And so those seeds are already more robust for this environment.
There’s so many aspects to. To it, but the same basics. So no matter where you go, you’re looking at all of those, that recipe and, and you’re trying to just put it together to work the best with where you’re at.
[00:48:13] Adam Williams: Well, speaking about where you go, you all have traveled and done some things in some different locations. So Hawaii is an incredible example because it’s so different than everywhere else, more or less in the US but you also went to Europe, right, and worked on some farms there?
[00:48:30] Josh Chance: Yeah, we worked on a couple farms in Europe.
[00:48:33] Adam Williams: Where were those?
[00:48:35] Josh Chance: One was. I wouldn’t even consider the one in France or farm, but the main one was Italy. And this was a really cool opportunity because it was two incredible chefs that had bought this historic property and the east of Italy, and they were raising all their own animals and raising all their own produce. And every Friday, beautiful five course dinners. Yeah. From everything came from their property. And so they would have workawayers or, you know, we trade labor for the stay there.
[00:49:15] Adam Williams: Okay.
[00:49:16] Josh Chance: And that was really cool to see that. That was. I feel like that was our first glimpse of true farm to table. And honestly, it’s. I. I don’t think I’ve ever experienced anything that has matched that since.
[00:49:30] Adam Williams: It sounds like something that we would see on Netflix or something, some series like Chef’s Table or something really awesome.
[00:49:36] Maddy Chance: I’m hoping they get there, look them up. They’re called the farming chefs.
[00:49:40] Adam Williams: Okay.
[00:49:40] Josh Chance: And they still, they still do it. I think they’ve changed locations, but they still do it. And they’re. Yeah, so we got to work that. We got to work the kitchen a little bit and kind of see that full circle of where the food comes from and the final product, people consuming it.
[00:49:59] Adam Williams: Did you go to Europe because you just wanted adventure? And okay, these are the skills and the interests I’m building. It’s kind of a vehicle to go do a thing. You look up, oh, hey, they have these kinds of work stay things all over the world. Italy sounds cool. Or was this about growing your knowledge? Because if we look in hindsight at the different locations of where you are starting to build this experience, I have to think that the different geographics of it all factor in to you building quite a base of knowledge. Was that conscientious? Was it, was that a choice where you’re like, I want to learn something from another region of the world, or was it just adventure?
[00:50:38] Josh Chance: It was, it was just adventure from my perspective.
[00:50:41] Maddy Chance: Yeah, I think it started with just adventure. Like we, we had just come back from Hawaii, gotten married and we were like, we just want to go and.
[00:50:52] Adam Williams: Just go maybe mid 20s at this point.
[00:50:55] Maddy Chance: I think we were 23.
[00:50:57] Josh Chance: We had just gotten married. That was kind of like our honeymoon.
[00:51:00] Adam Williams: Your parents are both, “Ah, those crazy kids. Now where are they going?”
[00:51:03] Josh Chance: Our parents. My. My parents especially, they’re just like, what are y’all doing? But they still always, you know, showed love and support in their own way. But, yeah, that all those experiences gave us a knowledge and a great set of knowledge and skills. And it was on that trip where we were kind of like, what are we. What are we gonna do with our lives? Where are we gonna move back to? Where. What are we gonna do?
[00:51:30] Maddy Chance: I had. I had a certificate to teach yoga, and Josh had a degree in parks and recreation.
[00:51:37] Josh Chance: But we were like, we love. We love farming. And. And honestly, that’s kind of what we know. That’s where we spent a lot of time in. For the past several years. So let’s move back to Flagstaff and let’s start up another. A farm. Another farm there. And it was a. At this point, we didn’t even know where we were going to farm. We just knew that we were gonna start up a farm.
[00:52:01] Maddy Chance: Yeah, I think we. Right when we got back, we got connected with, you know, a friend from the past when we were there, and they let us know someone was renting a room, one of their friends. So we got connected with Lizzie and we moved in with Lizzy, and we. We ordered a. I think it was like a $90 greenhouse off Amazon. Like, total, you know, piece of crap.
[00:52:27] Adam Williams: Like, is this just, you know, some. Some sticks to put up for the framework and like a roll of plastic.
[00:52:33] Maddy Chance: Sheeting, Basically, it’s like a little plastic cover that fit over the. The, you know, frames. Like tent poles, kind of. But we had learned a lot about microgreens in Hawaii, and we were like, we’ll start with microgreens. Microgreens were at the time, and they still are. But, you know, it was kind of this new push in small scale market gardening was microgreens. It was like, you know, for the amount of space that you need, the profit is great.
And all the restaurants, all the culinary experiences were using microgreens to garnish their plates. So we were like, well, let’s just start there. You know, we don’t need a lot of space. We’ll throw this in the back corner of the driveway and see what happens.
[00:53:22] Adam Williams: Grow parsley that gets put on the plates.
[00:53:23] Maddy Chance: And then no one eats it.
[00:53:25] Adam Williams: Yeah, no one eats it. So it goes in with the trash or compost or Whatever they do with it. Maddy, did you leave school at Fort Collins then to go get certified and study yoga?
[00:53:35] Maddy Chance: I did. I spent one year in Fort Collins and it was really fun. But again, a lot of my friends, you know, they had an idea of what they wanted to do, and it was specific. And I just didn’t have that same vision of what I wanted. And so I did some research and I actually did my first teaching certification in Fort Collins. But I remember it was like a six week program. And then they were like, you’re a yoga teacher.
I just remember being like, I don’t know how to teach a yoga class. Like, this was so short and, you know, minimal. Like, so I started researching some, like, in depth programs. And I found this one in Scottsdale that actually operates out of the community college there. But it’s really in depth. And, you know, a part of the program was taking like anatomy and physiology and studying the Iyengar method of yoga, which is a little more. A lot more like strict and structured. And. Yeah, so I found that and I was like, well, that’s what I love doing right now, so I’m just gonna go do that.
[00:54:44] Adam Williams: What was it about Iyengar that stood out to you? I mean, did you feel drawn to that rigidity of practice?
[00:54:52] Maddy Chance: Yeah, I did. I think in general, the way that I think is a little more linear and like analytical. And so I really liked that there was, you know, body science and cultural tradition behind these teachings and that they were strict about them instead of, you know, I had a harder time in programs that were like, you know, close your eyes and be a flower in the wind, you know, I was like, well, I don’t know, it just wasn’t really doing it for me in terms of learning about.
[00:55:30] Adam Williams: A bit abstract.
[00:55:31] Maddy Chance: Yeah, it was a bit abstract for me.
[00:55:33] Adam Williams: There’s a, I think, a challenge in Western cultures when it comes to yoga and the different modalities and ways of practicing that. We tend to think of it as just sort of a slow motion aerobics fitness class, this bendy flexibility sort of thing. And there is. I mean, there’s thousands of years of spiritual roots to it. You know, I think it can be difficult to know where, let’s say just in the U.S. but it’s not just in the U.S. where you go to a place and, well, what is the product, so to speak? Is there a product versus Is this a spiritual practicing community?
[00:56:09] Maddy Chance: Sure.
[00:56:09] Adam Williams: So it sounds like you figured that part out and knew what you wanted to do, but then you also are coming along with this farming experience. Right. So when you went to Italy, were you also hands in the dirt involved in the farming piece of it, or are we really talking about. Josh is the one who’s continuing to deepen this, and are you going along for the adventure because they’re together?
[00:56:31] Maddy Chance: Yeah. No, it’s a good question.
You know, I’ve always. I’ve always been passionate about health and wellness and nutrition and all of that because of my mom and the way that we were raised.
And so I think, you know, that’s always been in there. I think that Josh really did dive in, you know, deeply to pursuing farming. And I’ve always felt excited about it and there to help and, you know, wanted to learn as well. But Josh was definitely the driving force for all of that. I mean, if it was just me on my own, I would have never gone down that path.
[00:57:09] Adam Williams: It’s so interesting that you had the influence you did in his life, though, because you connected some dots. It sounds like early on for him to recognize then. This is pretty cool. I really like this.
[00:57:18] Maddy Chance: Yeah. And I think that just, you know, it speaks to the two type of people that we are. And you mentioned, like, when in life did you know you wanted to do life with Josh? And I think early on, there was a point that I realized if I wanted to be, you know, Josh’s life partner, that that meant going after what filled us up and what we loved and what we were passionate about, and not necessarily going after what was safest, but the way my mind typically does work is very, you know, calculated, and what is safest.
So, yeah, I think early on I realized, okay, we’re gonna. We’re gonna go after the things we love in life. And that feels a little bit scary. But also, how could you turn away from that? I mean, you can either do that. You can go after what you love and see how to make it work, or you can be really safe and kind of, you know, turn away from that or keep it as a hobby or whatever. And so I think it just kind of speaks to who we are as people. On my own, I would have never gone after the things that we’ve gone after. And I would have, because of that, I would have sacrificed a lot of that deeper purpose, like filling that cup of what is meaningful to me.
[00:58:37] Adam Williams: You build confidence as you step out there a little bit more. Right. Okay, let’s try this adventure. Yeah, that went really well. We figured out we could go to Hawaii and not be paid, but live right.
[00:58:50] Maddy Chance: And live so well. Oh, man. What an experience. We had such a beautiful time in Hawaii, and I think we moved there with like $400. And I. Maybe a cast iron pan that we took with us, like in our luggage.
[00:59:05] Adam Williams: Heavy in your bag.
[00:59:06] Maddy Chance: Yeah. We’re like, we can cook our meal on this. Like, you know, we had nothing. But again, who wouldn’t want that? Who wouldn’t want to go after what they love?
[00:59:17] Adam Williams: I think most people want it if they know it’s going to be safe. Right. Which is why we pull back and we live within the boundaries of convention, the majority of us. It’s scary to go out and do the things you guys have done, but then when you do it and you prove to yourselves you can do it, and you prove to your family, your parents who are maybe like, what are you doing? But then you gain confidence and then you go to Italy and you. And you gain confidence because it’s all working out and back to Flagstaff and you start a thing and it’s working out.
You end up moving here and what, two, three years ago, you have a daughter.
She’s born, it sounds like, I’m guessing that influence wanting to set down some roots and decide, okay, what is this next chapter going to be? And it turns out you came to the Arkansas Valley and decided you wanted to own your own farming business and start something, you know, of your own from scratch. How did you decide here of all places?
[01:00:16] Josh Chance: Well, we. We grew up in Colorado Springs, like I said before, and then my folks ended up moving away out to North Carolina, and then Maddy’s folks ended up moving out to Nathrop about the time that we graduated high school. So for us, coming back to Colorado meant coming back to this area. And then we ended up having our wedding here and just always loved this place and recognized the beauty. And in thinking about where we wanted to raise a family and raise our kid, we kept coming back to this area as a great spot for that. You know, coming back and visiting for summer or the Christmas holiday and seeing the parades and all the kids running around freely and riding their bikes unsupervised and just still playing like what felt like the good old days.
[01:01:16] Adam Williams: We do have some of that old school vibe here for, you know, my son’s 12 and 14, the 12 year old in particular. He’ll go out fishing on his own, he’ll go riding bikes with friends on his own own. And I don’t think that that’s everywhere. It’s how I grew up, and I don’t think it’s how a lot of kids grow up anymore.
[01:01:32] Josh Chance: Yeah, it’s, it’s really, really a beautiful thing to see that still alive and, and see that there’s that trust in the community of like, oh, this is a safe enough place to let my kid go out and do that. And yeah, we contemplated moving back to the Springs and this and that. And yeah, I, I wake up every morning and look out over those mountains and every day I’m just so thankful we ended up coming out here.
[01:02:00] Adam Williams: But this also is not depression era Vermont where you can live on maple syrup harvest for a winter. Right. Like, it’s expensive out here. So there is that reality. If we can touch on that. It’s a difficult place, I would think, to say we can make this work too.
[01:02:18] Josh Chance: Yeah.
[01:02:18] Adam Williams: You know what, what factors into those challenges for you?
[01:02:23] Maddy Chance: Well, I would say that we had some practice with this previous to coming back to Colorado because everywhere that we’ve been and, you know, grown and, and wanted to kind of do our own thing in terms of agriculture has, has been a place similar to here where, you know, people like it there and it’s, it’s sought after. So think Hawaii. You know, that’s not a cheap place to be.
Flagstaff, Arizona, it’s also not cheap. It’s well loved and there’s less resource than there is desire for being there. And then here in Colorado. So I think we did have some practice and before we actually even decided fully to come back here first, we kind of, well, Josh, put a lot of work into thinking, okay, what would our farming operation look like and where would we do it? And you know, let’s put some feelers out to figure out what’s possible before we fully jump in.
[01:03:28] Adam Williams: What is Headwater Farms? You know, how many acres? What are you growing there? What is that shaping up to be for you? And in this community, it’s a small.
[01:03:38] Josh Chance: Farm, it’s probably about two acres, but we, every year we expand little by little. So we started relatively small and have just taken on more as time goes on and as we feel like we’re capable of it. But it’s a farm that our mission, I guess I’ll start there, is to interconnect nature and humanity through agriculture. And so we grow food for the area. That’s our primary focus. But our other focus is to bridge that gap between people and their food. And so, you know, we try to get people out on the farm as much as possible, whether that’s kids from the schools, field trips, friends for dinners, CSA members coming by every week and picking up their food and being able to walk out on the farm and see where their carrots came from that same day.
[01:04:41] Adam Williams: You both have mentioned csa and that’s community supported agriculture, right? So you have a program where, you know, we can buy in for a certain share of it, is that right? And then during season, we’ve been part of them before. Is it maybe weekly? Come pick up whatever is ready at that time?
[01:04:59] Josh Chance: Yeah, exactly.
[01:05:00] Adam Williams: So is that a big part for a small local community farm like yourselves is, is participation in a CSA financially, but also then just in terms of like what you’re saying, if we can inform people, have them know we exist, have them know what we have to teach, how important is that to a farm like yours?
[01:05:21] Josh Chance: It’s huge.
[01:05:22] Maddy Chance: Yeah, yeah. The csa, you know, community supported agriculture, the community word in that is huge. It’s not only, you know, the idea behind a CSA is that you put in this early investment of money for a share and that money goes to the early labor, you know, the seeds, the materials, everything that we need to start the season.
And then throughout the harvesting, throughout the season, you get a share of that. But what’s interesting about it is that it also, aside from this beautiful thing of people buying into that and saying, okay, yeah, I’ll give this investment upfront and then I have my local vegetables every week, the whole season.
It also really does grow this little like family. Like, you know, we’ve, we’re going on our fourth year now and I think, as any business does, you know, you, you grow each year, you, you improve each year.
And we’ve had some people who have been a part of the CSA from the very beginning and they, they really have become, you know, our community. And it’s without their support and their, that just that uplifting encouragement, it would be really difficult because farming is one of those things where the first few months there is a lot of work to be done, there’s a lot of cost for inputs and there’s nothing to be harvested. You know, you do a lot of work up front and so, yeah, without their support, it would be really difficult to get the season going. And so I just always find, like, I’m always amazed at the people who as soon as we open up shares, they buy their share again and they’re like, we’re so excited and we’re talking, you know, it’s like six months from now before they’ll get anything from it.
[01:07:31] Adam Williams: Do they express, like, they feel some ownership in everything that’s happening there? Not necessarily in your farm per se. And in you, but some ownership and something positive that’s happening in the community.
[01:07:45] Josh Chance: Yeah, I would hope that they feel that way, and I think. I would imagine that they do in a sense. And I also think that, yeah, it’s a. It’s an incredible expression of people’s, like, trust in us and the farm. And there’s a lot of variability, you know, that things. Things just. A lot of times they don’t go as planned, but people are, yeah, trusting us to follow through with our promise. And I think that’s a lot of, you know, in a healthy community, it’s.
It revolves around trust, and so it holds us accountable to carry out with our. The product at the end of the day. And yeah, I think it does give them a opportunity to have some ownership in a local farm.
[01:08:40] Maddy Chance: I think, too, it provides an experience where they do get to learn and feel a little more connected with. With their food because they start to realize, you know, when they are with us, season after season, they kind of start to settle into like, oh, yeah, you know, these are the first crops that are ready. Right. These are like that seasonality becomes real to them because they’re not walking into the grocery store and getting, you know, their corn and their broccoli and whatever carrots that they get every week, all year long, they’re getting specifically what is being grown for the season.
And so there’s that educational piece. And then the fun thing with the CSA as well is it is. It’s this agreement of like, we don’t know how this is going to go, but we’re going to provide an investment, we’re going to get back whatever comes. And so it’s also an educational piece of, oh, you know, crops fail. This one crop failed, and here’s why. And maybe it was a weather thing, maybe it was a pest. And I think that people really enjoy learning about that and kind of feeling connected to. Oh, yeah, that makes sense. It’s not just wrapped in plastic and appears out of nowhere in the store.
[01:09:53] Adam Williams: It’s like, it’s such a basic thing that so many of us, again, the average consumer, and I’ll include myself in that, of course, we go to the grocery store and any time of year we can buy strawberries, we can buy melons, we can buy things that were shipped from around the country and around the world.
So to have that little, little bit of experience that is edifying about, oh, wait, there’s actually a process here. Like you were saying, you know, things can vary.
These are the crops we have available now. Because it’s seasonality or it’s whatever happened in the weather conditions to have that little bit of contact.
It’s not even actual, like my hands aren’t in the dirt. It’s. We’re a step removed still. But to get that much closer because going to the grocery store, it can be a sterile environment actually. Literally. Right. You mentioned being wrapped in plastic and all the things.
It’s an incredible thing to be able to go get our food on the farm from the farmers, to be in touch with those very real matters of how this all came together.
[01:10:51] Josh Chance: Yeah, yeah. It really connects individuals to the seasons and natural patterns. And that’s one thing that I’ve always loved about farming and agriculture is having that sort of connection. So it’s a fun thing to be able to share with other people just through food.
[01:11:07] Adam Williams: I think it also brings up, you know, when we are commercial consumers and as customers and this, if it still is true, this old idea that customers are always right. Well, I demand instant gratification right now. And if you don’t have my strawberries in of a reasonable quality right now, even though it’s winter, it’s maybe the wrong time of year. I’m mad as a, you know, as a customer, but to go get in touch with you as somebody when I show up and it’s like, hey, this is what we have this week. This is what’s ready this week, I think just brings us more back into that human and community experience.
[01:11:40] Josh Chance: Yep.
[01:11:41] Adam Williams: And I’m not gonna be mad at you if you don’t have my corn.
[01:11:44] Josh Chance: Yeah, well, it’s funny you say that. I feel like over, over the years and especially with our, our die hard customers there, there has been a lot of grace, you know, and that’s another great thing to see individuals have that grace and then that just helpfulness and that desire to want to see us succeed, you know, and obviously we want ourselves to succeed, but to have a backing of other people in the community that want that same thing, it makes it a more powerful force and it makes those times when you want to like throw in the towel and give up and quit when they’re hard and things aren’t going your way. It, it kind of brings you back to earth and reminds you like, nah, keep on, keep on going, keep on. It’s, it’s the, you’re, you’re doing it for something bigger than just yourself and your own gratification. You know, you’ve got mouths to feed.
[01:12:44] Adam Williams: How do you live with that? I, I would think there could be financial stress. There could be emotional stress. Maybe you see it as adventure. I don’t know. But when you don’t know what the year is going to bring and what crops are going to come and how much you’re going to be able to harvest and sell and all of that, it seems like you’ve got to be the right temperament to be a farmer of whatever scale.
Maybe. Maybe especially. I’ll say, let’s keep it to you guys small, because if you’re in the corporate thing and you’re getting subsidies from the federal government and things like that, I can’t. I don’t know those details, but I guess I don’t want to lump you in necessarily in that way, because you are having a very different experience. So let’s stick with yours.
[01:13:22] Josh Chance: Yeah, I can’t. I can’t speak on behalf of those sort of guys, like you said. But, yeah, for the small farmer, I think that you have to be passionate about it. You have to be resilient, for sure. And I can’t say that I’m always those ways. I think a big part of me personally being able to persevere through those times is one, having a partner who supports me and who lifts me up out of those dark holes really quickly.
[01:13:59] Adam Williams: Has a meditation session out in the rows when you’re waiting for the crops to come through.
[01:14:03] Josh Chance: Yeah, that is true. I mean, you have to have those sort of practices.
You have to take care of yourself and your own psyche. And I think.
And I’m saying all this from my own perspective, like I. And I know Maddy does the same. Like, we try really hard to work on ourselves and just try to be as good as we can be through whatever practices those are. We have an assortment of them, but that, I think, helps us. Helps make us more resilient to those difficult times because they come. They’re inevitable.
[01:14:48] Adam Williams: Yeah.
[01:14:48] Josh Chance: In farming, you’re not gonna get away. It’s not all the glorified life.
[01:14:53] Adam Williams: It’s not just the. The four hours a day and then you sit around and play music.
[01:14:58] Josh Chance: Right, Exactly. It’s not. Yeah.
[01:15:00] Adam Williams: That book lies.
[01:15:02] Josh Chance: They lied. But, yeah, you know, some days. Some days are like that, but definitely not all of them. But that’s life, you know?
[01:15:10] Maddy Chance: Yeah. There’s a lot of hope that has to come with farming, and there is skill as well, you know, like, it’s very different when you’re talking about starting a new farm operation from the ground up. What those first five years look like compared to years after that, because there’s an element of skill and there’s an element of resource in that as well. So, so there’s always variables. It’s never going to be exactly by the book, but if you have skills and more experience and you have good infrastructure and you have cell contacts and all those things do make a difference as well.
So I will say Josh has become a very good grower. We’ve learned a lot over the, the past decade and his skills I think are wonderful. I think he’s a great farmer and I think where we’ve had tight seasons or tough seasons since moving back here has been really due to either a variable like weather that’s just uncontrollable or just getting set up, getting established as a farm. So getting our infrastructure in and you know, getting our systems in and finding how we do it best and most efficiently and all of that, which is a part of the fun is figuring out all of that stuff and putting it all in place. But yeah, establishing a farm from the ground up is. There’s a lot of work that goes into that in the first five years.
[01:16:50] Josh Chance: Yeah, I feel like it’s incredibly humbling profession because you realize really quickly that you’re not in control and just when you think you have it all figured out, there’s a curveball thrown your way and you realize that you don’t know as much as you thought you did. Yeah, and I like that Maddy touched on that sense of hope because yeah, I think hope and faith are like to big components of farming.
For me personally, realizing that there’s something a lot bigger than just what’s in my control. And you know, there’s forces at play that are out of, out of my knowledge and out of my control.
[01:17:40] Adam Williams: You mentioned the commitment and what the time is to be able to get established, set up. You know, you need season after season kind of get things going.
And so I have a question in mind, but I ask it hesitantly. It’s about vision, kind of your longer term, maybe goals. And the reason I’m a little bit hesitant with it is because I think we have in our society, especially with the American thing of always up and to the right, that means you’re always growing. You’re always, you know, this year is more profitable than last year and the next year will be more profitable than this year. As if there’s no room to just breathe and be holistic and take care of yourselves as humans along with, you know, do you have an idea in mind of where you maybe want to grow but still then stay within the capacity of yourselves and enough is enough. And we’re not trying to accumulate thousands of acres and become a bigger corporate farm that needs this expensive machinery. Where is that balance as you see it now?
[01:18:42] Josh Chance: Yeah, that’s a great question. Yeah, we definitely have a long term vision of the farm. And I think one, the primary vision is just to keep farming in the location where we’re farming. You know, we moved around a lot in our early years and we want to keep farming where we’re farming and keep refining our operation. I think that’s the biggest vision is we, we’re always looking to improve upon our farming and our, our production.
Not necessarily in terms of like, you know, growing the farm in acreage or making more money or this and that. It’s just we want to over the years end up with the best final product that we can. So we just, we really want to grow really high quality, nutrient dense produce and get people in touch with that. You know, I think a big part of our vision is to refine our growing processes and keep getting kids out there. Keep getting people out there and showing them and getting them connected with agriculture.
[01:19:57] Adam Williams: And your own kid.
[01:19:58] Maddy Chance: And my own kid, yeah, she’s out there.
[01:20:01] Josh Chance: Raising our own kid is huge.
[01:20:04] Maddy Chance: I think, you know, without having things in production, without growing things, it’s hard to bring in like as some would call the agritourism aspect of it.
And so obviously, you know, the, the principle, the main goal is, is to grow the food and for it to be delicious and beautiful and something that people want and you know, that they enjoy.
And I think that, you know, that’s, that’s the primary goal. But once we get where that’s, our systems to do that are very efficient and they’re in place and you know, the building phase of that is done and now it’s just operating. I think kind of what you’re saying is expanding a little more into the agritourism side of it where, you know, we have even more field trips out, we bring the library events out, we offer some U-picks or you know, maybe some, some things where people can come and bring their lunch and picnic at the farm and just make it a space where it’s really accessible to the community to see how it operates and to access the food that’s being grown in the soil of their community and yeah, connect people to that because it is, it is really powerful.
You know, kind of comes back to the very first question you asked is, you know, these roots that we had in our families with farming and it’s funny because we had like one generation gap. Right. Like my grandparents were farmers in Crowley, Colorado. His grandparents and great grandparents were farmers in Alabama. Like his 80. How old’s grandma Bobby? She 80 … ?
[01:21:50] Josh Chance: 84.
[01:21:51] Maddy Chance: 84 year old grandma still has her summer garden every year and she spends her falls in the kitchen canning it all, preserving it all. But we didn’t have that connection to our grandparents. We didn’t learn that from them.
So when we first started out, it felt very alternative. Right. And disconnected. Like, oh, we’re on this alternative path, but really full circle. It’s not. There was one generation that, you know, didn’t necessarily prioritize that, but his grandma’s still living, still doing these things. We could learn so much from her still. And so I think for most people it’s that way. It’s really only a couple generations for most that didn’t have experience in being that connected to their food.
[01:22:40] Adam Williams: Yeah. It’s not alternative when we, we take a wider view of time and you’re really bringing us back to what I’m, I assume really was the standard at some point was small local family farms, community farms.
[01:22:53] Josh Chance: Yeah. Yeah. It’s largely how humanity has always operated.
[01:22:58] Adam Williams: Sure.
[01:22:59] Maddy Chance: And how, you know, we need to get back to, in my opinion, we’re pretty passionate about as many small farms as there can be. You know, that’s, that’s a good thing.
[01:23:09] Adam Williams: Well, that’s part of what it would have been in a rural farming community too. Right. Is that kind of everybody, at least a lot of the people who were there, you would have had your small farm next to that person’s small farm next to that. And everybody was in it together. Everybody had this common experience, common knowledge, you know, common interest in how the weather went and how what was going on in your community.
This has been a lot of fun to talk with you both. I appreciate getting to know about your love story, about your farming story. Any last thoughts before, before we wrap?
[01:23:38] Josh Chance: Thank you for what you’re doing.
[01:23:39] Maddy Chance: Yeah, yeah.
[01:23:40] Josh Chance: And. And inviting us on. We really appreciate it.
[01:23:42] Adam Williams: Absolutely. Thank you both for being here.
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[01:23:53] Adam Williams: Thank you for listening to the We Are Chaffee Podcast. You can learn more about this episode and others in the show notes at wearechaffeepod.com. And on Instagram @wearechaffeepod.com.
I invite you to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I also welcome your telling others about the We Are Chaffee Podcast. Help us to keep growing community and connection through conversation.
The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health thank you to Andrea Carlstrom, Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment, and to Lisa Martin, Community Advocacy Coordinator for the larger We Are Chaffee storytelling initiative. Once again, I’m Adam Williams, host, producer and photographer of the We Are Chaffee podcast.
If you have comments, or if you know someone in Chaffee County, Colorado who I should consider talking with on the show, you can email me at adam (at) wearechaffeepod.com. Til the next episode, as we say at We Are Chaffee, “share stories, make change.”
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