Jordan Cunliffe | Photograph by Adam Williams

Overview: Jordan Cunliffe is a soccer coach and mentor to students at an alternative high school in Chaffee County, Colorado. He also is a former Division I university athlete whose drug addiction cut short his career playing the sport he loved more than anything.

Jordan talks with Adam Williams about growing up in a non-religious, non-traditional family in a heavily Mormon-influenced community in Utah. They talk about his move to New York to play at Iona University, and the decade-long spiral of addiction and self-sabotage that unfolded after an injury sidelined him from playing soccer. Among other things, like getting clean and finding his way back to soccer as a coach.

Or listen on: Spotify / Apple Podcasts


SHOW NOTES, LINKS, CREDITS & TRANSCRIPT

The We Are Chaffee podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health.

Along with being distributed on podcast listening platforms (e.g. Spotify, Apple), We Are Chaffee is broadcast weekly at 2 p.m. on Tuesdays, on KHEN 106.9 community radio FM in Salida, Colo.

Jordan Cunliffe

Website: Chaffee County United

Documentary: “A Home in Paradise”/ Watch the trailer

We Are Chaffee Podcast

Website: wearechaffeepod.com 

Instagram: instagram.com/wearechaffeepod

CREDITS

We Are Chaffee Host, Producer, Photographer & Website Manager: Adam Williams

We Are Chaffee Engineer & Producer: Jon Pray

We Are Chaffee Community Advocacy Coordinator: Lisa Martin

Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment: Andrea Carlstrom


TRANSCRIPT

Note: Transcripts are produced using an automated transcription app. Although it is largely accurate, minor errors inevitably exist.

[Intro music, guitar instrumental]

Adam Williams (00:00:11): Welcome to the We Are Chaffee Podcast where we connect through conversations of community, humanness and resilience in Chaffee County, Colorado. I’m Adam Williams.

Today I’m talking with Jordan Cunliffe. Jordan was one of four people who were featured in A Home in paradise, the We Are Chaffee documentary that debuted this past year at the Salida Film Festival and it soon will appear on Rocky Mountain PBS. 

If you watched that film which highlighted challenges of affordable housing here in Chaffee county, you got to hear some of Jordan’s story. But I knew there was a lot more to that story and I wanted to go deeper into it with him. So here we are. 

Jordan and I talk about what it was like growing up in a heavily Mormon influenced community and high school in Utah as part of a non religious family. We talk about his love of soccer. And I insult that love a little bit. 

We get into how Jordan went from being a starter on a Division 1 University soccer team to ultimately choosing drugs over soccer, the sport that was the love of his life. Of course, to say it was a choice, well, we are talking about addiction here. 

We also talk about self-sabotage and mental health. Along the way, Jordan shares some enlightening insights about addiction and how crucial his family’s loving support was for him to once and for all commit to getting clean. 

He now views his decade of addiction as the best thing that has happened to him. We talk about why that is and we talk about his service to others now as a campus supervisor and I would say mentor for students at Chaffee County High School. 

He also is a coach and the director of operations for the Chaffee County United Soccer Club and he coaches for Colorado Mountain select ODP, that’s Olympic Development Program.

There was a time that coaching soccer had never entered Jordan’s mind as a possibility. Despite his playing career and long standing passion for the sport. He just never thought about what he could bring to others as a coach. Then the idea came to him from an unexpected place during a dark time in his life. We’ll talk about all that too. Among other things. 

The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health and it’s part of the larger We Are Chaffee storytelling initiative. You can get free access to see that documentary I mentioned, “A Home in Paradise” at wearechaffee.org.

For all things We Are Chaffee podcast go to wearechaffeepod.com you can see episode show notes with photos, links and a transcript of this conversation. You can subscribe to the monthly email newsletter there as well, if you’re on Instagram, you can see more photos and connect with the podcast @wearechaffeepod. 

Alright, now here is Jordan Cunliffe.

[Transition music, guitar instrumental]

Adam Williams: You had a really busy fall with coaching soccer. Multiple teams, putting on 10,000 or so miles, driving around Colorado in a matter of a few months.

[00:02:53] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, man, that’s a lot of love.

[00:02:55] Adam Williams: I don’t know if it’s, you know, for the sport, for driving mountain roads, or of course, coaching kids. Like, what is it about that for you that makes that passion just like, it’s all worth it?

[00:03:10] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, man, soccer was like my first love. Like, I’ve loved it for as long as I can remember. It’s just been always a thing that’s brought me joy, you know, for a long time as a player and like, having that college career and all that stuff was awesome. And then now as a coach, it’s much different. But it’s just, it’s always been the thing that I love the most. And like, I just, I don’t think that’ll ever change. Like, it is, it’s lots of work. There’s parts of it that are like the 10,000 miles in four months, you know, this summer or this fall. But it’s always been the thing that’s like, taken me to the next phase of life.

Like, as a, like as a kid, it was the thing that gave me confidence, it was the thing that gave me friends.

And then when I got the college scholarship, like, it was the thing that took me to college and took me to the next stage in life, you know, and then now is like, after I got clean, it was like, because truly when I got clean, it was like, well, what do I do now? It’s fun. It’s kind of funny now that I look back on it, it’s like, why did I not think about this? But like, it was actually in the drug court where somebody was like, why don’t you like, volunteer to coach soccer? And I was like, oh yeah. Like, why didn’t I think of that?

[00:04:37] Adam Williams: You had never thought of coaching at all before?

[00:04:39] Jordan Cunliffe: No.

[00:04:40] Adam Williams: Wow.

[00:04:41] Jordan Cunliffe: Like, it never crossed my mind, like, and somebody else offered it up and I was like, oh yeah, like, that’s.

[00:04:47] Adam Williams: I have something to offer, you know. Yeah. We’re going to get into some different facets of that. Let me first insult your love of soccer.

[00:04:54] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, that’s fair.

[00:04:56] Adam Williams: That’s fair. I love that it gave you confidence and of course gave you teammates. I’ve said on here before, basketball was my main sport. I played various things as you probably did, but when it came, like, to that, there was a love for that one thing. So teammates and stuff I get. But basketball is more dynamic in a smaller space. A lot more scoring, you know, a lot more of that kind of thing going on. And so to somebody who, you know, we see the. The what? The Big four, we got baseball, hockey, football, basketball. And then soccer has come along slower here than around the world. You can have a 00 tie, right? You can have a 10 game. Tell me what. What is it that drew you to soccer where you’re like, yeah, that’s the thing I want, versus some other sport which would have given you teammates basketball.

[00:05:48] Jordan Cunliffe: So I played all those sports too. You know, I don’t. I don’t know if there’s something about, like, the. 

The nature of the game. It just. I just. I was always. It was just always the one that I love the most. Like, ironically, I hate running. Like, I hate running, dude. Like, it was always the most brutal part for me. Like, when we had fitness sessions, like, I never wanted to do it, like, and I had guys on my team that were like, let’s run, let’s run. You know, and they were super fit. Like, and I hated that part, but I just.

[00:06:19] Adam Williams: Was it long distance, like, aerobic conditioning versus the sprinting kind of thing?

[00:06:22] Jordan Cunliffe: I can do the sprinting, but the long distance.

[00:06:24] Adam Williams: Yeah, I hated that too.

[00:06:25] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. I just was not a fan of it. I don’t know. I think there’s. There’s something about, like, the problem solving in soccer that I do really love. So, like, when you talk about a 00 game. Right, that’s true. But. But there’s. There’s so much that goes on into that 00 game and, like, the. The style of play, the tactics that. I think that if you don’t know soccer super well, like, I. I hear people all the time, oh, dude, you’re just running around kicking a ball. Like, that’s like the most common joke I hear when people talk about how boring soccer is or whatever. But it’s like, if you don’t truly understand the game, then, like, there. There is so much going on all of the time and, like, that problem solving and, like, now, as a coach, communicating to players how to problem solve and how to teach, that is like, a big challenge that I enjoy. But I know. I think there’s just something about the flow and the creativity of the game that just always made me excited, like, and the passion of it. It’s just like, when they do score. Have you ever watched soccer highlights or watched a game a little bit.

[00:07:28] Adam Williams: Yeah.

[00:07:28] Jordan Cunliffe: When you see them lose their minds when they score a goal, I mean, the celebrations, I don’t know, I just relate to that feeling when I watch the game. Like, it’s just always been that thing that I just care about the most.

[00:07:41] Adam Williams: Is that more like our problem is solved. We scored versus, you know, we finally scored. Somebody might win, you know. Is it the accomplishment of what you’re saying? It’s almost. When I hear you say problem solving, I’m kind of thinking of chess too. You’re trying to maybe out strategize and work around the problems that the defense, for example, is trying to present to you. Right. They don’t want you to score. Is that what we’re talking about?

[00:08:09] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, like the, the strategy of. It’s like, it’s like there’s. There’s basketball, for example, related to basketball. Like, there’s teams that are like really good in the half court and there’s teams that are. That try to get on fast breaks all the time. Like, that’s. I don’t understand basketball very well, but I know that those are two things you can do. Right?

[00:08:26] Adam Williams: Sure.

[00:08:28] Jordan Cunliffe: In soccer it’s the same way. There’s teams that run and gun that are super athletic and they present different challenges. And there’s teams that are really good at keeping the ball and connecting the ball and within their possession. And so like, when we encounter different teams, it’s like, okay, how do we adjust to this on the fly? Like, and you can’t call a timeout in soccer. Communicating those things to the players on the field in real time is like super fun and also really frustrating, you know, but just that problem solving, it is like a chess match, but more so I really view like the soccer every. 

It’s long, it’s grueling, like, it’s tiring. I really think that soccer, for me, the way I relate to it is like, it’s the best metaphor for life. It is like you have to go out and fight and you don’t know what’s going to happen. And that’s just kind of like what life is, you know? And so like when I step on the field as a coach or a player, that’s really what it feels like. It’s like, okay, for the next 90 minutes or whatever, the length of game, it’s like, how do we problem solve and come away with a win in this situation? And that dynamic, that problem solving piece, the emotions that you feel up and down throughout the game, there’s highs and Then there’s lows.

And I. And I love the game for all of it. Like, I think the thing I love the most about it is what it makes me feel.

[00:09:56] Adam Williams: I obviously don’t know a lot about it. I appreciate some things that I do know. I definitely respect the fitness and the running and the constant motion. Like you said, no timeouts. I’m not going to take a dig about the flopping. We’ll just move on.

[00:10:09] Jordan Cunliffe: Oh, dude, that’s true. I hear that a lot, too.

[00:10:14] Adam Williams: That drives me nuts. I’ll just say that. So I’m curious about when you were a kid and you got started.

[00:10:19] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:10:20] Adam Williams: And you were growing up in Utah, is that right?

[00:10:21] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, I grew up in Ogden, Utah. Yep.

[00:10:23] Adam Williams: So how did you come into it and say at what age? And I’m also, I guess, curious if we kind of expand that to what was it like growing up in. In Utah and the environment around you and kind of more general things.

[00:10:38] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, I really don’t. I’m sure my mom signed me up for soccer to have a free hour of babysitting when it started. You know, I don’t know. But, like, she’s a single mom. Two kids growing up in Utah. Like, that’s not the typical family dynamic.

[00:10:55] Adam Williams: You know, for Utah, having a single mom kind of household.

[00:10:59] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, that’s. That’s not the case where I grew up. You know, it’s a. It’s a heavy Mormon population in Utah. And, you know, as a kid, you’re not super aware of that stuff that kind of comes around as you get a little bit older, like more of those societal dynamics. But, I mean, life at that point seemed pretty normal to me. You know, I. I think that sports really helped me socially. My dad wasn’t around.

[00:11:28] Adam Williams: Was he nearby at all, or did you just never have him around?

[00:11:32] Jordan Cunliffe: No, he was. So he was off coaching, ironically. Okay, so he was. He. They. They split when I was like, under a year old.

[00:11:40] Adam Williams: Okay.

[00:11:41] Jordan Cunliffe: And what did he coach? Football. So he’s. And he still. He’s a college football coach today.

[00:11:47] Adam Williams: Okay.

[00:11:47] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:11:48] Adam Williams: Is there any chance. I. I love to connect dots and help us dig deeper, but I also don’t want to get it wrong. So, of course, correct me if I am. Is there any chance that was in the back of your mind as far as maybe you did not want to coach? Because he’s a coach? He wasn’t around?

[00:12:03] Jordan Cunliffe: No, not at all. Like, I. And I don’t. I don’t think so. At least not that I’m aware of. You know, it’s actually really interesting. Like I don’t have any animosity towards my dad. Like we’re not super close, but like we’re closer now probably than we’ve ever been. But I never grew up with like this anger that my dad wasn’t around. Like, I know a lot of people talk about that, like, and I’m sure it affected me in some ways, you know, but I hear people talk about like it was really upsetting that I didn’t have this parent around and like on like a day to day basis in the way that it made me feel, I was, I never, I never felt that part of that was just because my mom was like the most loving person that I know. You know, to this day she is, she’s like my number one fan. So yeah, I never really experienced. I don’t, I don’t have a grudge, I don’t have any animosity. I think it’s really cool now though that like as an adult, especially since getting clean, like, like realizing how important family relationships are, like I’ve.

To be fair, I haven’t. I could do more but like re. Establishing that relationship has been something I’ve wanted to do since getting like a fresh start on life again. I mean, it’s actually been this really cool thing where we get to connect through coaching because now we’re both coaches. Yeah. So in this weird way it worked out great. Like I even called him over over Thanksgiving break and I was like, hey, I need advice on how to get through this off season. Like I’m going through coaching withdrawals. Like, you know what I mean? And so he was just able to like give me some insight on that. But yeah, I never felt any animosity about it.

[00:13:38] Adam Williams: I didn’t realize that was a thing. Like now that you mention it, I can see if you just really love coaching and that’s part of your everyday and it’s so full on when you’re in a season, you know, you’re traveling for games, you’ve got practice, you’ve got all these things and you’ve got so many different kids and the dynamics and, and then it goes away and it’s away for months. And I never really thought about that, you know, that say my coaches might be, you know, missing it or thinking, what do I do now?

[00:14:05] Jordan Cunliffe: It’s. It’s hard man. Like, it is like you are neck deep in a season. It’s like you said, training every day you’re traveling, the relationships that you build with kids, you know, and then like, you play your last game of that season, and just like that, it all shuts off. Like.

And so it is hard because, like, you miss the kids, too. You know what I mean? Like, you miss the game, but you miss the kids. At least the way I coach, man, I really try to get to know my players. Like, I take, like, I’m really invested in, like, their life and, like, the role model that I’m able to be, the perspective that I hope to provide, the motivation, you know, those things. So, like, when that stuff goes away, it is. It is definitely a little bit weird. Not to mention, soccer season is not in the winter, and I hate winters, so I hate the cold. So it’s like two things at once. It’s like season’s over and it’s cold. I don’t ski, I don’t snowboard. So it’s like, yeah, I go through a bit of the winter blues, for sure.

[00:15:08] Adam Williams: You said it was a Mormon, heavily religious sort of environment? Of course, you know, that’s what probably most people in the country think of. The first thing you hear, Utah, you’re like, there’s a big, big Mormon population. So are you suggesting that your family was not Mormon? Was not engaged in that?

[00:15:23] Jordan Cunliffe: No, we weren’t. We did not grow up religious at all, which was. I mean, I think that, like, growing up as a non Mormon in a heavy Mormon community kind of makes you, like, a little bit of an outcast by itself. But, like, we also weren’t religious.

And so I think at the. When you talk about, like, the kids, like when I was in fifth grade, the kids weren’t thinking about it. You know what I mean? But as you get up to high school, like, they had what they call seminary at the high school. So, like.

[00:15:54] Adam Williams: Oh, wow.

[00:15:54] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:15:55] Adam Williams: Was this a public school? Public school.

[00:15:57] Jordan Cunliffe: It was a public school. So they have seminary where it’s like you go and you do your religious studies.

[00:16:04] Adam Williams: Everybody had to. Or that was an option.

[00:16:06] Jordan Cunliffe: That was an option. Okay. But like, so as. As they. As they get older, you know, that becomes more part of who they are and the things they’re interested in.

Because I. I don’t know how much, you know about the Mormon religion, but, like, they all go on, like, the men go on missions, right? And so like, that happens basically as you graduate high school. So when you’re young, the kids aren’t thinking about it, but, like, when they’re junior seniors, and that’s kind of like the thing that they’re supposed to do next, then it starts to come up you know, and. Yeah, so just. I wouldn’t say it, like, truly, like, broke any of my friendships, but there’s definitely some disconnect that starts to happen. More so than just like, what do you like to do for sports? Or just what personalities get along that kind of starts to come into play as. Even as early as high school. Because that’s like, kind of the thing that they’re thinking about. They’re trying to hang out with other people that are Mormons and doing the same thing that they. That they’re doing. Right. Which is what we all do. We hang out with people that kind of have similar interests as we do.

[00:17:09] Adam Williams: And so they’re talking about their possibilities and their futures. Just like for so many other kids. They’re talking about, well, I’m going to get a job or I’m going to go to college. People are talking about their plans as we’re all getting grown. We’re almost adults and out in the world. Right. We’re juniors and seniors in high school. And for those kids, yeah, they had that all in common. The interesting thing, as you point that out, as I’m thinking, you’ve told me you were in a high school that was probably around 2,000 students or so. Yeah. Which, that. That was like four times the size of the high school I went to. So that’s pretty large to me. Not only then were you standing out maybe as being part of a religious minority, because you aren’t Mormon in that environment, but you’ve also said that you were one of only three black kids in the school. So now you’re also kind of different in this way. Did you ever feel any of that? I’m sure you felt it. What I’m guess I’m asking is, did anybody make you feel less than because of it?

[00:18:06] Jordan Cunliffe: No, not necessarily. I mean, there was. There was only one incident in sports. There was a basketball team, actually, that I tried out for and I made. And I didn’t know about this until like a year later when my mom told me, but she didn’t tell me about it in the moment, but there was like a discussion about, like, whether or not the coach was actually gonna let me play on the team because he had some racist tendencies and ultimately he did. So I, like, was not affected by it, but like the assistant coach, I’m trying to remember his name anyway, it doesn’t matter, but had reached out to my mom and like, hey, just want to let you know, like, this is something that is kind of going on with the head coach dynamic and so he’s like, I’m advocating for Jordan to play, but, like, I just want to let you know, so. But I didn’t find that out until later. She didn’t disclose any of that to me.

[00:18:57] Adam Williams: How old are you?

[00:18:58] Jordan Cunliffe: 34.

[00:18:59] Adam Williams: So we’re talking early 2000s.

[00:19:02] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:03] Adam Williams: We’re talking 21st century. An issue that, for many of us, we’ve only seen be so blatant, like, for a sports team, that it conjures ideas of, like, the 50s, you know, pre civil rights, pre integration of schools, like, back when it was a big deal if a college coach would allow a black athlete on the football team kind of deal.

[00:19:27] Jordan Cunliffe: Right.

[00:19:27] Adam Williams: Which sounds really ridiculous to me.

[00:19:30] Jordan Cunliffe: It’s. It’s. It’s weird, man. But, you know, I don’t. I haven’t. I. My situation was so unique, and I know there’s other black people that deal with, like, overt racism, and especially in a way bigger, way, visceral way than I have.

But, like, I grew up all around white people. Like, I just. Like you’re saying with the school, my. My dad wasn’t around. My dad’s black. My mom’s white. I grew up with my mom’s side of the family. I.

I was just never aware of any of that stuff. Like, nobody really ever made me feel, other than because of. I’ve gotten it more as an adult than I did as a kid. So, like, I was just, like, kind of unaware of all that stuff, you know? I think the first time that I really got, like, any sense of, like, black culture was when I got my scholarship to go to Iona, which is. Right. You know, 30, 40 minutes from New York City. And then there’s. It’s so diverse in there, you know? Yeah.

[00:20:32] Adam Williams: Big change, right? I mean, big change geographically, culturally.

[00:20:36] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. So I. I think. I think that kind of opened my eyes to that stuff a little bit, you know, but, you know, I guess I was just, like, oblivious. Growing up in Utah. Like, I don’t. Like, I’ve made the joke that, like, I forget that I’m black. You know what I mean? Like.

Like, I don’t know. I don’t think about that stuff. I’ve had really good people around me that, like, they don’t speak about any minority or group in a derogatory way. Like, my family was just not that way. Like, whether it was sexual preferences or ethnicity, race, you know, like, that was just like.

Like, it was never even talked about, simply because, like. Like, it wasn’t even, like, had this. We had to have this Talk of, like, we. We treat everybody the same, right? Like, everybody is so open and so accepting that, like, it was just never a conversation that came up. So, like, I was unaware that, like, there were kind of people in the world that even thought that way, you know, because I just. I never heard of an ounce of that type of speech ever.

[00:21:44] Adam Williams: When you went to Iona, you had a D1 scholarship to play soccer.

[00:21:47] Jordan Cunliffe: Yes.

[00:21:48] Adam Williams: That’s what led you there. And so big different experience, big context switch. What was that like for you?

[00:21:57] Jordan Cunliffe: Man, I loved it. I remember. I will never forget it. I mean, so I. I actually. I dated a girl in. In high school for years. I had, like, a high school sweetheart. And I remember, like, get, like. As it got closer to, like, hey, I’m moving to New York. Like, that was, like, really hard, you know? It was. And it’s like. It’s like, I’m getting on this. I remember thinking about it, like, I’m getting on this plane, and, like, I’ll see my mom, like, three times a year, like, from this point on, you know? And, like, and I’m leaving her behind, leaving, like, my best friend in the world behind who. And we’re still friends to this day, which is cool. But it was. It was such a shift.

And I remember just being, like, so scared. Like, I cried in the airport. I cried on the plane basically the whole way. And then I. I got picked up. And so I get dropped off at this house, and I’m hanging out with soccer guys, and that helped. And they. They were like, so, have you been to the city? And I was like, no. They’re like, all right, we got to take you to the city tomorrow. And so I’ll never forget it. I. We take the train in. It stops at Grand Central. I walk off the train, and I’m in Grand Central, and I’m like, whoa. Like, this is so cool. And then we walk out onto the street, and I’m like, 24 hours ago, I was in Utah. Never been here before. And now I’m stepping onto the street in New York City, and I’m about to walk through Times Square and the energy and the buzz and just like, Oh, I don’t even mean to romanticize it, but it was so cool. Like, I will never forget that feeling of, like, I can’t believe this exists. You know? Like, it was insane. Like, I loved it. And so, like. And as soon as that transition happened, I was like, oh, ok. Like, I’m so glad I had the guts to come do this. You know what I Mean, because I was so nervous about that change.

[00:23:58] Adam Williams: There’s a big world out there.

[00:23:59] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:24:00] Adam Williams: And that was a very clear threshold. You crossed into this huge world that was so much more, so much different than where you’d been. Right. When. When you were a boy. Now you’re stepping into this thing. As I’m grown, I’m out on my own and what all lies ahead. Right. A big, big, wide world.

[00:24:19] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. It was amazing, man. Unfortunately, I haven’t been back to New York City either. But I really want to.

[00:24:26] Adam Williams: You mean since you left school there?

[00:24:27] Jordan Cunliffe: Since I left school, yeah.

[00:24:28] Adam Williams: Because I assume you. You would go back and forth when you were in school.

[00:24:31] Jordan Cunliffe: Yes.

[00:24:31] Adam Williams: Because like you said, you’re only, you know, 30 minutes or whatever away, so having team kind of environment for you is helpful. Right. Making that transition, you have built in friends or at least people to hang out with.

[00:24:45] Jordan Cunliffe: That was huge.

[00:24:46] Adam Williams: And so you’re going on with your soccer career, your studies. Take me through, you know, kind of the experience. Because you’ve mentioned getting clean and somewhere along the way, I don’t know exactly when life started to shift for you, but that’s what I kind of would like. If you will share that story, you know, work us toward that.

[00:25:05] Jordan Cunliffe: The getting clean clean or just, like, the transition into the drug use.

[00:25:10] Adam Williams: Yeah. Like what? I mean, you had life going on where you had this scholarship for education, you have this team, you have this love for soccer, but at some point, something in your life starts shifting toward drug use.

[00:25:23] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, Matt. Well, I think I’ve always been like. You know, they talk about whether, like, addiction is, like, genetic or whatever, you know, and. Or if people are predisposed to. To kind of highlight, like, how much foresight I should have had and into the fact that I would ultimately end up on that path. I remember, like, being 5 years old and watching Forrest Gump, you know, that scene where Jenny does the line at the bar? I remember being 5 years old, and I thought, like, I remember it vividly, and I was like, oh, I want to do that. And I didn’t even know what it was.

[00:26:05] Adam Williams: Yeah.

[00:26:06] Jordan Cunliffe: You know, and so, like, I don’t know. I was just. I kind of was always interested in, like, the experimentation of that stuff. Honestly, I was.

[00:26:15] Adam Williams: Were you aware of that being present at all in Utah, or was that just. Yeah, surely it’s somewhere.

[00:26:21] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. I partied in high school, too, but it never got to the point where I was, like, ruining my life, you know, So I went to New York, like, having partied quite a bit already, but never in a way that it took over my life. And then as I was in college, like, I had season, you know, so we had fall and spring season. And so, like, I honestly would. I think what let me back up. So I. I kind of. I red shirted my freshman year, and that was fine. And then I came back my sophomore year or my redshirt freshman year, and I started and I was, like, thrilled. Dude is like, oh, my gosh, I took this risk. So much uncertainty.

Like, you know, you get out there, you have, like, the environment is so different, so professional. It’s so serious. And it’s like, am I good enough to be here? Start to question yourself in some ways, you know. And so anyway, I come back my sophomore year and I. And I’m starting D1 starter on a college soccer team. Like, this is everything that I wanted, you know. And so I started that season, and then I blew out my knee the following season, and so I was not able to play. And that’s kind of when I started to lose focus on soccer quite a bit, honestly. I still maintained, you know, like, but that transition was really hard for me. And I think, like, losing the game, like, it was so it’s even today, right? You hear me talk about, like, it’s so wrapped up in my identity. Like, soccer is like, such a core pillar of who I am. And so, like, I just remember being devastated when that happened, you know, And I, like, right around that time is when my mental health started to shift. So, like, when I was there, I.

I stayed focused, I played soccer, I did those things. But when I would go back to Utah, that’s when I really started. Like, I’d started binging on drugs, like, when I was home. And then I’d go back to school and I’d be focused on soccer. And so I was kind of living, like, in these two different worlds. When I was in Utah, I was, like, doing drugs, and when I was in New York, I was focused on soccer. But that line started to blur more and more, especially after that knee injury and then, like, trying to overcome that knee injury, like, which I did. But I was never the same player as I was. And I think that took a big toll on my mental health.

[00:28:50] Adam Williams: It does. You know, I played at a small college or went to a small college to play basketball. I was derailed with illness as a freshman right before the season even started. So red shirted that season, but everything after that, it was already derailed. I went through a series of injuries, all these things. Nothing ever was the same again, nothing. I never felt as confident in myself as an athlete in that way. Again, I, you know, alcohol, partying, woe is me.

[00:29:23] Jordan Cunliffe: Yep.

[00:29:24] Adam Williams: You know, all the thing that I was very much changed at that point. And I don’t look back on my college years in a very shiny light, you know, because I think so much of it then was contained in that psychological state.

So I understand that, that, that as a pivot point in your life. But of course, you say you weren’t the same athlete, but you also had the drugs creeping up and becoming a bigger part of your life as well. So I think probably you similarly had a snowball effect of all the things that were kind of then not working for you. You were working against yourself at that point.

[00:30:04] Jordan Cunliffe: Oh, big time. And so that. That’s like one part of the story that I don’t know if most people know is. So once that line started to blur. So I mentioned that I red shirted my freshman year. Right. So then I played my sophomore, junior, and senior year, but because I read, I redshirted. I had that fifth year on the back end.

[00:30:25] Adam Williams: Yep.

[00:30:26] Jordan Cunliffe: I went home, back to Utah before that school year and. Or for that summer, and went nuts. Like, like you said, everything was snowballing. I wasn’t feeling good about myself. I kind of didn’t know who I was as an athlete anymore.

I was getting kind of pulled into the drug scene more than I liked. And I went way off the rails that summer. And so I called my coach and I decided that I wasn’t going to play that fifth year, which was really difficult.

[00:30:57] Adam Williams: Had you graduated academically at that point?

[00:31:00] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. So I still got my diploma, I still graduated. And how that went down is a whole other story that we can talk about too. But I.

Yeah, I called and that’s when things got really dark because, like, I partied that I knew that I couldn’t show up to a Division 1 preseason camp in the shape that I was in, like, mentally or physically. Right. Like, I had just trashed my body for three straight months. And I mean, I was in. I was in rough shape. So, like, I had to make that phone call and be like, yeah, coach, like, I’m. I’m not going to play this season.

And I, of course, lied and made up different reasons as to why that was the case. And yeah, so then. Then I. Then I think it was like, looking back, it’s like, dude, I just quit the thing that I love most in the world because of drugs. And then, like, I think. And I I recognize that now. I didn’t make that connection then, but I think that was, like, devastating for me unconsciously, you know, that it was like, how did this happen?

[00:32:07] Adam Williams: So I think a shame spiral can kick in at that point, or at least, you know, get worse than what it might have already been. Because on some level, like you said, you maybe didn’t make that direct connection in your mind, but on some subconscious level, you probably were aware. And then how bad do you feel about yourself? Because, you know, you just made that trade.

[00:32:26] Jordan Cunliffe: Yep. So that was rough. And things got really rough. So I was getting so to talk about how the. My time at Iona ended, right? So I quit the soccer team because I knew I wasn’t going to be able to do it, but I was still working on.

So my junior year, I decided I wanted to go to medical school. So I took every class that I needed for medical school. So I went back to school. I just didn’t plan the soccer team for that semester because I was working on a chemistry minor, and I was like, well, I need to finish this. And, you know, so I did go back to school. I just didn’t play soccer, but I was just using like crazy, still passing my classes. I did pretty well in school. That was my worst semester ever. But, like, still bees or, you know, but just, like, on drugs. And so it eventually got. I got arrested for drugs, and it eventually got to the point where I was like, okay. Like, I was. I planned to stay a full year to hang out with my friends and all that stuff, you know, But I was like, okay, I have the credits. I need to graduate. Like, so I took my diploma and I. My family shipped me back home to go to an outpatient rehab. That was my first encounter with rehab. So by the time I got to the end of college, like, I was really losing it.

[00:33:47] Adam Williams: How was your family aware that you were in that state and needed that help?

[00:33:52] Jordan Cunliffe: Oh, from the arrest.

I got. I got pulled over for speeding. And when they pulled me over, like, I didn’t look good. My car didn’t look good. They could smell marijuana, and they searched the car and they. And they found drugs. Ended up getting arrested. So I called my mom and, like, kind of lied to her about, like, why I was going to court because I didn’t want to freak her out, and I didn’t want her to know. And, you know, you hide that stuff in addiction.

[00:34:19] Adam Williams: You know, I brought up shame. I mean, it’s.

[00:34:21] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, it all spirals and so. But my mom being the person she is she was like, dude, you’re. You’re going to court on drug charges in New York City. Like, there is no way I’m not coming out there. I’m showing up so sure. She’s like, I need to know what happens. So I, I told her it was for marijuana. It was not for marijuana.

It was for paraphernalia. Needles and cocaine is what they found in my car. And so my mom shows up, we.

[00:34:53] Adam Williams: Talking about heroin with needles?

Jordan Cunliffe: Cocaine.

Adam Williams: You shoot cocaine?

Jordan Cunliffe: You can. I did. And yeah, so that, that’s kind of like when she be. She was like, oh, something’s going on in his world that I am just like oblivious to. And it was super easy to hide when I’m in New York and she doesn’t know. Right. She’s in Utah still.

[00:35:17] Adam Williams: Can you get away with telling her? Oh, it was the first time, mom. Just the first time, you know, because to her, obviously what she’s gonna be thinking is, man, there’s, there’s a lot more to this. Like, this probably wasn’t just a one time thing.

[00:35:30] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:35:30] Adam Williams: What has my son been up to? Who has he been mixing with? How bad are things?

[00:35:35] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, so, like, I mean, that’s the thing that, like, a lot of families, like, you talk about, you hear about how addiction rips families apart, you know, and it’s like, because if you haven’t been through it yourself, like, it’s hard to see. It’s hard to watch the person that you love go through that. Right.

And. But you also don’t understand, like, what they need. And the person that’s going through it doesn’t understand what they need either. So, like, my mom has never dealt with anything like this. So she gets thrown into this world where all of a sudden her son’s an addict and like using needles and it is just like, what? Right? So to your point, how did, like, how could I get away with like, this being. Oh, mom, this was just a one time thing. So, like, yeah, I tried to go about that. Like, I was like, I was like, sure, mom, it’s not as bad. Like, I’m just partying, blah, blah. So I. She stays with me. So like, for like another 10 days or something in New York. And like, basically the court’s like, sign up to take drug tests. We’ll see how this goes and we’ll figure all this out. I got a lawyer and he’s like, dude, you can’t use. Like, it’s bad news if you use. And so while my mom was there, dudes, like, three days after my court date, she hears, like, my front door close at, like, 3:00 in the morning.

And she. All of a sudden, my phone rings. I’m on my way to the dealer’s house, and my mom is like, she’s like, if you don’t come back to the house right now, I’m calling the cops. Like, I’m calling the cops. Get back here. And I had a. I was. She bought me that car. I had a car out there, but I. It wasn’t my car. It was the one I use, you know? She’s like, that’s my car.

[00:37:23] Adam Williams: Like, her name is on it.

[00:37:24] Jordan Cunliffe: Her name is on it. She’s like, if you don’t come back to the house right now, I’m calling the cops. Which was, like, so smart of her. Like, that. Like, she handled that.

[00:37:31] Adam Williams: That’s. That’s really well. Tough love line. That’s so scary and difficult for a parent.

[00:37:36] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:37:37] Adam Williams: Like, because, you know, I’m. You know, I’m sending my son into something else here. It’s not good, but it’s better than if I let him risk his life and never see him again.

[00:37:47] Jordan Cunliffe: Yep. And so I. I listened. I turned, actually, I think, if I remember right, she was like, park the car and walk home. And so. Because I. She. I just kind of left. And so I did. I. I came right back home. And so she had to leave. Right. And I was like, mom, I fucked up again. I’m sorry. Like, I’m gonna. I’m gonna be better. This is gonna be okay. I’m not gonna do it. Like, I understand. Like, this is a crazy moment. This is helping me see it. And, like, you do see, like, what is happening. It’s three in the morning. I’m yelling in front of my mom about trying to go get drugs. She’s gonna call. Like, how did I. How am I in this moment right now? You know? So she left, back to Utah. I was on her phone plan still, right. 

So, like, she left and I was still in New York. And like, within six hours of her leaving, I just went to the drug dealer’s house. And she finally gets back to Utah. She looks at my phone logs online, and she’s like, dude, you’re. You. You did it again. And I was like, no, I didn’t. She’s like, I can see the phone logs. Like, I know you did. And so ultimately, she called my lawyer. The lawyer was like, if this is how he’s behaving, dude, like, you got to figure something else. Out, like, this is not a good spot for him. Like, he’s in trouble, and we need to. We need to sort this out. So they flew me home, and like I said, I. That was my first experience with, like, going into treatment for drugs. I moved back home, moved in with my. My uncle because I was so mad at my mom for trying to hold me accountable, you know? And that’s gotta be so hard on her. Yeah.

[00:39:23] Adam Williams: When. Especially when that’s how you respond. Right. Is that now you’re blaming her, you’re mad at her, and she’s, you know, in such a tough spot, watching all of this and trying to help you and not knowing for sure what to do.

[00:39:36] Jordan Cunliffe: Right.

[00:39:37] Adam Williams: And you’re lashing out at her.

[00:39:39] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. I mean, that’s tough. It’s hard. It’s. It’s so much credit to her because, like, she never wavered. Like, she always wanted me to get help. Like, but she was always there. Like, there was. I. I hear, dude in recovery rooms, people talk about, like, my family kicked me out. My family so mean. My family thinks I’m disgrace. They’re ashamed of me. They hate me. They think I’m useless. Like, my experience as an addict was not that, like, I have the most supportive family in the whole. It was like, we fought. And I. Mostly because of me, you know, getting defensive and lying and sneaking around and stealing, doing all this stuff. But, like, it was never a moment of, like, we hate you. We’re mad at you. It was just like, we love you and we want to help you. Like, but you have to let us know when you’re willing to get help and how we can help you, you know?

So, like, I. I mean, it’s sad because I. Like, that’s. Ultimately the thing that got me clean, was that support. And I know a lot of people don’t. They go through addiction because addiction is terrible for everyone around them. But for me, I. I didn’t experience that. My family was just like, we love you, and we want you to get better.

[00:40:50] Adam Williams: You ended up moving to Chaffee county because you had family here, right? Is it a grandmother?

[00:40:55] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, my grandma and my great aunt.

[00:40:58] Adam Williams: Okay.

[00:40:59] Jordan Cunliffe: Connie Cameron was her married name. Connie Shake. She. She just actually died about two months ago. But she. She lived here her whole life. I don’t think she ever left Chaffee County. Yeah.

[00:41:10] Adam Williams: So you had, you know, more love, more family. This was a chance to get clean. But within a few weeks, you got a hold of. Is it meth?

[00:41:19] Jordan Cunliffe: Meth, Yep.

[00:41:22] Adam Williams: And so the addiction continues for some Years.

[00:41:25] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. I mean, I moved here because I basically got evicted. Not basically out evicted. I got evicted because I wasn’t paying my rent. I had moved out of my mom’s house. I had gotten a job. I moved out against my better judgment and against her will. Buck. She knew.

[00:41:44] Adam Williams: Was it to create space for you to be able to continue drugs?

[00:41:47] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, that’s the whole reason. And so, yeah, I moved out here and I found it pretty quickly. I didn’t. I wasn’t committed to getting clean. It was kind of just like, I’m doing this thing because I have nowhere else to go, and I’m kind of mad at my mom and she doesn’t really know how to handle this right now.

[00:42:03] Adam Williams: And so trying to outrun the problems.

[00:42:05] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:42:05] Adam Williams: Rather than. Like you said, there wasn’t necessarily a grand vision of, I’m going to go to this place. I’m going to go to the beautiful mountains, I’m going to get clean, fresh air, new life.

[00:42:16] Jordan Cunliffe: Not at all. Like, not. Not at all, man. I. It’s. It’s actually, I came here with no real intention of getting clean. Like, I might have thought, like, I. Oh, maybe this workout. But, like, was my head there? No. And to get clean, you have to. You have to really want to get clean. When you used the way I did.

[00:42:35] Adam Williams: Which is why people talk about rock bottom. Right. Is you have to get to a place where you feel like, this is so beyond me, it’s so bad, I have no choice but to try to go back up, you know, in an upward direction with my life.

[00:42:49] Jordan Cunliffe: Right. And that’s the only option. Like, and just the way. I mean, I was in a spiral, and, you know, I was talking to my girlfriend about this on. Or maybe it was my mom, but on the way home from Denver, I can’t remember one of the ladies in my life. And there’s like this weird, that satisfaction when you’re, like, in that spiral. At least that I experienced, where it’s like, there’s this freedom in just, like, not caring. Like, when you’re in a bad spa and your life has just devolved in ways that you could have never imagined. Like, it, like, you know, when I moved to Colorado, that was just probably two years after New York. 

So if I go back one more year. Three years ago, I was playing Division 1 soccer, and now I’m in the lowest moment at that time that I thought I could feel. And it’s just like, there’s this thing about addiction that just feeds that, where it’s like, dude, if you’re tanking. Like, just go for it, you know, And I, and I really experienced that. And like, it’s sad to think about now, but like, in that moment, like, you realize your life is a mess and all these things. But like, there is this weird, there was like this weird freedom of like, well, if my life’s gonna end up like crap, like, I’m gonna be, I’m gonna be the one to make sure it does. You know what I mean? Like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna take control of this and I’m. And I’m gonna feed all. I’m gonna feed this spiral and then at least if it crashes, like I had some control in it. And I don’t know if that makes any sense, but like, that’s really what it felt. And there was like a freedom in that.

[00:44:39] Adam Williams: I understand. No, there’s a self-sabotage aspect to all of this that I’m wondering if, if there was, you know, what might have led to some of that. If it was about pressure, if you felt like you needed to sustain some sort of identity or success or role in other people’s lives as this D1 player, if it was something else you were afraid of. You know, we’re all using these things and it can, it doesn’t have to be alcohol and drugs. It can be sex, it can be ice cream. I mean, it can be anything where we are filling some sort of void and trying to numb out for something. Something that’s unresolved within us on some sort of emotional, spiritual, psychological level. And I don’t know if you have spent any time with therapy, in the process of treatment or where you maybe have gone to try to figure that out for yourself.

[00:45:32] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. So, I mean, I, I didn’t have good self esteem, like, and I don’t, and I don’t know exactly why, you know, but like I mentioned, you know, soccer was always the thing that, that gave me that source of identity. Like when I did, even when I didn’t feel great about anything else, you know, Like, I remember I took, I took relationships ending like really hard. Like when that, when like me and my high school sweetheart broke up, I talked about that experience. Like, I, I remember that affecting me like a lot, you know, and there’s all sorts of things. Like I, I went through some sexual abuse by a stranger when I was, when I was a kid and. But I just remember. 

And maybe that was like the root of like this uneasiness and anxiousness. I don’t remember it this way, but my mom said I had high anxiety as a kid, and I don’t remember it, like, as super young, but I just remember feeling kind of uncomfortable in my own skin always, for some reason. And I know it’s. It kind of contradicts what I said, but both are true. Like, even as a soccer player, right? Like, I never got to experience the game the way that I wish I would have, like, because I was always, like, so worried about how I performed. Always, like, and. And I enjoyed the game a lot. But, like, I. As I look back, it’s like, dude, I. I didn’t make the most of that. Like, it was. There was always this heavy anxiety. You talked about pressure that I just kind of. That I kind of dealt with. And I think once I felt that relief through the drugs, it was just like, I’m gonna sit in this moment, you know? And then I did that for a decade.

[00:47:21] Adam Williams: What made the difference when you finally did make that, that turn back toward the light, let’s say, and toward the possibilities in your life and toward things. We’re gonna get to this, but toward the things like the coaching that you were doing with your life now.

[00:47:36] Jordan Cunliffe: You mean with getting clean? Yeah.

[00:47:38] Adam Williams: Yeah.

[00:47:39] Jordan Cunliffe: What.

[00:47:39] Adam Williams: What made the shift from a decade of addiction and all of these things where you are choosing to spiral and, you know, crash and burn, what led you toward. I really do want to get clean now. I really do want to commit to this thing.

[00:47:54] Jordan Cunliffe: So when you use for as long as I did, like, even when you talk about, like, perceptions of homelessness and drug addicts, like, in society and the stigma with all that, right? Like, you hear that. Like, why don’t people just, like, get their stuff together? And, you know, like, it’s not. First of all, it’s not that simple, you know, but, like, when you use and you. Or you could be homeless or whatever that situation is, it’s like, it’s not that you don’t know that you need to change. Like, all those people in addiction, people that are homeless, like, dude, they know that they’re in a bad spot. Like, it’s. It’s just hard. So, like, I, I. I was getting to the point where I was, like, starting to Google, like, how do I get clean? I was getting into looking into treatment centers, and this was because I had gotten arrested, and I had a probation officer that was pushing me to, like, get clean. But. But I. For a couple years now, like, I’d been watching YouTube videos about, like, people that had been in addiction and then gotten clean. Like, I knew that I needed it to Happen. Right. I just didn’t know how.

And then it’s really funny. I actually talked about this at the school recently. So I was looking up ways, like, what’s the easiest way to go through withdrawals? Like, how do you get. What’s the easiest way to get clean? Which is like an insane Google search because it’s like, there’s no easy way. Right, Right.

[00:49:23] Adam Williams: It is. It’s like, can I do this extreme thing in a very comfortable way to make it easy? Which, of course, nobody can.

[00:49:29] Jordan Cunliffe: Right? Yeah. And so I remember I heard this quote, and I’ve kind of always resonated with, like, quotes. Like, I really like that. Like, I. When you do, like, philosophical or whatever, those things always speak to me for whatever reason. And I heard this one quote by Carl Jung that was, that which you need most is hidden where you least want to look. And I will never forget the day I heard that quote, because I was like, shit. Like, there’s no easy way through this.

And it was just like, I. I really understood in that moment. That was like, the only way to get to the other side of this is, like, to be willing to go through it. Like, that’s what that quote said to me there. And it’s. It’s the. That pain, that discomfort, that acceptance of where I am, that willingness to admit to myself and everyone around me that, like, this is where I am. Like, I did not want to do that. Like, I did not want to have to accept that, you know? But when I heard that quote, I was like, all right. Like, that’s. That. That’s. That speaks to me. Like, that’s the answer. Like, I have to just be willing to go through this no matter what it feels like.

And then it took me, like, two more years, but I thought about it every day. Like, every day I got up. Like, and people on the outside probably wouldn’t have guessed that I was getting closer to getting clean. Right. Because my actions didn’t change that much. But the way that I was thinking about my own addiction and the way that I was thinking about how I’m going to come to terms with being willing to grind this, grind this out, was shifting dramatically.

[00:51:20] Adam Williams: That might be the biggest piece. Right. You had to be in that place mentally, or it’s not going to happen.

[00:51:25] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. And I. And I. So there’s like, two years of, like, I’m going to be able to do this. I’m going to be able to do this. Like, and then. Then you hear. And I don’t know if I was just Like, BS in myself to try to hype myself up or whatever. But, like, you hear the statistics, and, like, people in addiction don’t get out all the time. You know? Like, it’s a low percentage. And I remember thinking that I was like, okay, I’m gonna. I’m gonna be the one person. And, like, I told myself that for months, years, you know, like, it doesn’t matter what it looks like now. Like, I know I’m gonna be that one person. Like, I will get out of this. And it took a long time of convincing myself. And then when I finally, you know, I was on probation, like, I said, I finally was just like, you know what, dude? Like, I’m doing it. I called my mom and I said, hey, like, I need to go to treatment today or tomorrow or who. This stuff makes me emotional.

I was like, I need to go to treatment today or tomorrow or I can’t guarantee that I’m gonna go. And I was like, I picked one out. I want to go to this one. It was a bunch of money. And she just. Like, she always does, dude. Like, I was on a plane the next day, and I went.

[00:52:44] Adam Williams: I can only imagine as she heard you say those words. I mean, I don’t know how emotional your mom is or not, but I’m thinking the emotion that must have come over her to hear her son, who needed this, to finally be the one to come to her and say, I know I need this. You had to have, like, sent her heart through, like, I don’t know.

[00:53:06] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, well, she got pretty pissed at first.

[00:53:08] Adam Williams: Oh, really? Which was–

[00:53:11] Jordan Cunliffe: Well, because, like, I caught. Dude, I didn’t do it the best, you know? Like, I called her and I was like, mom, I gotta talk to you about something. You’re not gonna like it. That’s how I phrased it. And she was on her way to work. She’s, like, walking into the hospital, and I dropped this bomb on her, and I’m like, I need this money.

[00:53:28] Adam Williams: What was her job at the hospital?

[00:53:29] Jordan Cunliffe: She’s a social worker.

[00:53:30] Adam Williams: Okay.

[00:53:31] Jordan Cunliffe: And so, like, I mean, she was pissed for, like, 90 seconds, you know, she handled it really well. And she. Like, I said, I got. She did it like, she made it work. She made the money work. So did my dad help, too? And I was on the plane, but, like, ultimately she was, like, really thrilled, and I’m sure it felt really good. And then, dude, the other thing that. That really changed. I’ll probably cry here again when I tell this little story, but I remember, like, that was a big moment for me because I was like, oh. Like, I just did the thing that I was most afraid of, which is own up to my shit and admit that I’m in a bad spot and tell the people that care about me most, you know? And so, like, after I talked to my mom and she was like, well, I gotta figure this out. So, like, thank you. I’m so happy you want to get clean and all this stuff, whatever. She’s like, I gotta go. I’m getting into work, but we’ll figure this out. My sister called me a couple hours later, and I was like, oh, no. But she. Basically, all she said was, she was like, hey, I know this is hard, but I’m really proud of you, you know? And it was in that moment that I knew I was making the right decision, you know?

Like, I’m asking, like, I’m in a really weird spot, and I’m asking, like, just, like, for her for me to be in such a chaotic life, but to be like, hey, what you’re doing right now is right. Like, I was like, okay. Like, I know this is the right choice. And then, like, once I got through that, like, I don’t want to say that sobriety was easy, but once my mindset shifted to, like, this is the thing I’m doing now, I know that this is just going to be hard, and I have to be the one to grunt it out. Like, I never looked back for a second, but it was all about making that shift.

[00:55:18] Adam Williams: Is it difficult now, like, on a daily basis, do you. Do you struggle with this still, or do you feel like you are clear through to the other side? Life is good going forward.

[00:55:31] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, dude. I feel I don’t deal with it on a regular basis, on a daily basis, especially, like, and I know that’s not the same for everybody. Like, I know other addicts that, like, it’s even a few years in, like, it’s a fight still, you know? But, like, my – and I think finding the thing that you love is, like, so important because, like, I remember I even told myself when I went to treatment, I was like, well, I’m gonna give this six months, and if I hate it, I can use again. Like, that’s the way that I, like, Like, I was like, I can always choose to use again, you know? I mean, which is, like, not a common theme that people, like, kind of express in recovery. Like, that’s not, like, a super good message from the outside.

[00:56:12] Adam Williams: There is nobody who would want you to say that. But I do get what you’re saying you felt like you needed to allow yourself the permission of some sort of out from this thing. But we’re still committed to the path forward. I totally get that.

[00:56:26] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:56:26] Adam Williams: I’ve done that with therapy before, many years ago, where somebody said, I need you to commit, to come in every week for however many weeks. And I’m like, I’m going to tell you right now, I just come out of the army. I was like, all childhood and a life of. I felt like being controlled. And I had to say, I’ll commit to you that I’m coming. But you’ve got to understand, I’ve got to tell myself in my own mind, I’m allowed to not come. And if I decide to back out, I’m doing it.

[00:56:50] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[00:56:51] Adam Williams: And now I’m not going to do it. Right. But I needed to know in my mind I had an escape hatch.

[00:56:55] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah. Well, I knew, like, I knew that I couldn’t be like, oh, if I don’t feel good in 30 days, that, like, I knew I’d listened to enough things, I had read enough things that I was like, 30 days is not a commitment to this. Like, that’s not enough time. So, like, what amount of time am I willing to commit to? Because, like, I knew it was going to be grueling, right? So I was like, I will not use for six months, and then I can reevaluate. And by six months, dude, like, everything had changed, you know? Like, I felt like. It’s hard to describe the ways that I felt better. Like, I was so much more connected to family.

My life was just less chaotic. I didn’t feel the shame. I was proud of myself, right? Like, I started to get like. It’s like, holy crap, man. Like, did I really just do that? Like, where did that come from? You know? And then, like, you didn’t then. I didn’t want to lose that momentum. And so, like. And over time, like, did I still think about drugs six months in? Yeah. Was it like, this paralyzing thing? No. 30 days in, I’m picking up my phone and I’m like, oh, should I text the dealer? Pull the dealer’s number. Put it back down. I’m like, nope, don’t do it. Like, that was like, the first 30 days of, like, this close. At any moment, it could have. I could have sent the text, but I didn’t, you know?

But after, like, six months, I was like, oh, no. Like, I’m not doing that. And then it became. I started to, like, shape this thought of myself, of like, like, oh, dude, I, I can do really hard things because the other thing that happened when I got out of treatment was I, I, dude. So I make this joke that I’m the. That I was the fattest tweaker ever, because I, I, I, I made. I gained, like, in treatment. Dude, I just ate, and they pumped me full of meds, and I like, that mess up with your metabolism. And I got up to, like, 225 pounds or something. And so I came out of treatment. Huge for me.

[00:58:59] Adam Williams: How tall are you?

[00:59:00] Jordan Cunliffe: Five eight. And so I was. I was big, dude. And like, and just that, like, I, I say that my body was my physical manifestation of where my head was, you know, because I was this D1 athlete, super fit all the time, and now I’m just, like, this addict who’s way overweight, and it was just like, what has happened? So. But when I got out, I went to the doctor, and I was diagnosed with diabetes. The doctor was like, dude, you’re in a bad spot, like, if you don’t. And this was two weeks after treatment that he was like, if you don’t. If you don’t change this, you’re gonna be dead at 50.

And I was like. And my mom was so nervous that that was, like, dealing with that anxiety was gonna, like, send me into a spiral. But like I said, I kind of transformed my thinking into, like, I’m somebody that can do hard things. And so, dude, I kind of went back to, like, everything that I knew. It’s like fitness. So I had to change my diet because of diabetes. But, like, I just started walking, and walking turned into running, and then I started running more, and then I started going to the gym, and before I knew it, I lost 50 pounds. The diabetes was gone. I was a year into sobriety, and, like, life was so good, you know, it was. It was a crazy year.

[01:00:19] Adam Williams: We’re talking about for the timeline here, you’ve been clean now for around two and a half years.

[01:00:24] Jordan Cunliffe: Yep. Two years and seven months.

[01:00:27] Adam Williams: Okay. You know, I feel like this is a moment where somebody might say congratulations, and that also feels like such a weird thing to say to you. Right. It’s a big life and death deal we’re talking about. It definitely is an accomplishment for yourself and something that you’re saying you feel proud of and, you know, sure, yes. Love yourself, have confidence.

So, you know, I don’t know that saying attaboy is exactly the thing for me to say here, but I. Man, I applaud you for all the things. For overcoming all the things.

[01:01:02] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, it was. I appreciate that, dude. And. But now it’s just becoming, like, the way I lived. Like, my girlfriend makes fun of me because I’m like, dude, I hate running, but I. I do it because it sucks. Like, I, like, I hate it.

[01:01:16] Adam Williams: You can do hard things.

[01:01:17] Jordan Cunliffe: I can do hard things. And it’s like, the worse it’s gonna be, it’s like, the more I lean into it. Like. And so even with the. That which you need most is hidden where you least want to look, right? It’s that thing for me every day. It’s like, what’s the thing I want to do least right now? Like, the thing that’s, like, kind of hanging over my head, that. Whether it’s, like, working out or it’s like, something I need to do for my job, like, that quote kind of keeps me moving every day. Just like, that thing I don’t want to do. That’s, like, in the back of my mind, I’m like, damn, I don’t want to do that right now. It’s like, that’s what I have to go do. And, like, I don’t. I’m not perfect at that every day, right? Like, it’s not like, oh, I never put things off, or I’ve never woken up and been like, you know what? I. I’m not gonna run today. Like, that stuff of course, happens. Like, I’m human. I’m not perfect. But, like, the vast majority of days, like, I do the thing that I don’t want to do. Like, because I know it keeps me healthy. Whether it’s running or it’s like, this task that I’m just procrastinating. Like, I just. I’m like, I gotta do it.

[01:02:24] Adam Williams: What are things like with your family now? You know, they’ve been with you through all of this? Through the darkness to the light.

When you go and you visit your mother, you see your sister, you know, whatever the connection is with your father, phone call, visiting. I don’t know how that works for you, you know? What is that interaction like now, knowing, man, you all were there with me, we came through it. I’m sure they look at you and they think, you know, my boy looks a lot healthier.

[01:02:52] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, dude. Yeah. It’s the best, dude. Like, like I said, they’re just the most supportive. Like, I think if anything that’s changed, I can’t speak for them. I’m sure it is. But, like, for me, getting to share time with them is, like, really special. I didn’t go to Christmases, Thanksgivings. I. When I just didn’t show up to that stuff for the longest.

[01:03:16] Adam Williams: Even if you lived locally to where your mother was, for example.

[01:03:20] Jordan Cunliffe: And if I did, it was quick. Was like, once I moved to Colorado, I never. I never went home.

[01:03:26] Adam Williams: Was that about embarrassment because you didn’t want them to see you in whatever state was it? I’m not spending my money on that. I’ve got, you know, other uses.

[01:03:34] Jordan Cunliffe: It was. Well, it was. I. Honestly, the biggest thing was, like, they’re getting in the way. Like, I want to get high, and if they’re there, I can’t get high.

[01:03:41] Adam Williams: Okay.

[01:03:42] Jordan Cunliffe: And so, like, that was just, like, the priority. Like, I didn’t do anything that would prevent me from being able to do that, you know? And so now when I see him, dude, it’s just, like, amazing. The way I appreciate them is like, oh, dude. It’s hard to describe. Like, I know that I’m really lucky, like, number one, to be out. Two, to have supportive family, but, like, just the way that they were always there. Like, it. It. Like, it strained our relationship. But I. I talk to people about this all the time. Like, I’ve never had a moment, and I think this is probably part of the reason why I was able to get clean anyway. But I’ve never had a moment that I was, like, where I had to doubt whether or not my family supported me or loved me or, like, wanted me around even when I was using, you know, like, there was. And I don’t know how many people feel that way that don’t go through addiction. Like, I talk to people about family, their families, and they’re like, man, we have all these crazy family dynamics, and we fight and, you know, and my family’s just not that way.

We get, like, everyone has each other’s back in a way that is, like, hard to articulate. It is like, if you’re one of our people, we love you, and that’s it. Everything else, like, nothing else matters. And so, like, to be able to, like, experience that and appreciate that, Like. Like, oh, wow. I watched you guys live up to that, like, you saying that for a decade, and now I get to spend time with you. Like, it’s just such a level of gratitude that you can’t really explain. You know, you just. You feel it and. Yeah, so. So getting together with family now is just amazing.

[01:05:31] Adam Williams: It sounds great, and I’m happy for you to have that, for sure. And from what you had said, they were difference makers.

[01:05:38] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[01:05:38] Adam Williams: In where you are now where you’ve come to. So we said that, you know, you come through to the other side and. And you’re doing these things like coaching. You also are maybe, for lack of a better way to say it, life coach, mentor, that sort of counselor with Chaffee County High School. That’s an opportunity for you to share this kind of story with kids who probably can benefit from a relationship with somebody like you who can talk about this stuff.

[01:06:09] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah, man, it’s really interesting what I do now. I never understood when I got into coaching, I really thought it was all about soccer. Or when you have teachers at school, you’re like, oh, they’re just. They just want me to do this homework, right. Or whatever that is. Like, I don’t. I don’t know if you haven’t taught or if you haven’t coached or if you don’t have your own kids, for example. Just, like, it’s the schoolwork and the soccer is, like, just the medium for, like, me to be able to, like, really try to make an impact on people. Like, I know the experience that I had was valuable. Like, it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. Like, as crazy as that sounds.

[01:06:55] Adam Williams: The addiction.

[01:06:56] Jordan Cunliffe: The addiction, yeah.

And so, like, do I want the soccer kids to achieve all their soccer dreams? Yes. Do we work really hard at making that happen for them? Yes. But I really.

I just want to be, like, a person that can provide a different perspective and a different lens and encourage them from a different place. You know, like, we do. We do a thought of the day, and I. And with the kids at Chaffee County High School, we do these things called weekend reviews. And I’ve introduced this thought of the day with them as well. But it started with the soccer kids and where, like, I. I pick a quote, a simple one might be like, you can have anything you want, but you can’t have everything you want. And, like, I’ll take 15 minutes before soccer practice, and, like, I’ll talk about that with. With the girls just to get them to, like, start thinking about that type of stuff, right? Like, whether it’s soccer or it’s a job you want or a business you want to want or want to start. It’s like, you’re going to be able to do any of that, but, like, it is going to come with a certain level of sacrifice. And, like. Like, what are you willing to give up to have that thing that you want?

And so, like, to just, like, start to plant those seeds and to, like, see them grow, whether it’s the kids at the school or the. The girls that I coach. Like, like, you really get to watch it in real time. And I think the coolest part about it is, like, I. I share my experiences, too. Right. And so, like, I. I think kids are really good at detecting whether you’re full of crap or not, you know? Yeah.

And so, like, they know that when we talk about these things that, like, I’m coming from a really authentic place. And so, I mean, yeah, it’s. It’s just, like, it’s so rewarding to watch people, like, regardless of what spot they’re in in life, to, like, kind of make that shift of, like, oh, I kind of believe in myself. Or at least if I don’t believe in myself, I’m willing to work and see if I can start to believe in myself. And, like, you really get to watch that with kids because, like, everything’s possible for them right now. Right. Like, literally anything they want to do, like, they could do it. And so to, like, watch that take root, even in, like, really small ways, is super, super rewarding. And I. And I enjoy doing it both with the kids at the school and the kids I coach.

[01:09:28] Adam Williams: I think it’s so valuable that you are providing this as an outside source of an adult who is sharing in these life philosophies, because as a parent, my sons are not. They might get used to me teaching like this or speaking like this and tune it out.

 

[01:09:43] Jordan Cunliffe: Right, right.

[01:09:44] Adam Williams: For them to hear it from someone who’s outside of the household and who is stirring some of those patterns of thought and how to see themselves, how to see life, how to see the possibilities.

You know, you’re not coaching my kids, but I certainly, for, you know, those whose kids are with you, I think that’s incredibly valuable. And I appreciate that you’re doing it.

[01:10:05] Jordan Cunliffe: I mean, it was really funny. One of the moms text me, and they were like, I swear my daughters listens to you. My daughter listens to you more than she does me.

[01:10:13] Adam Williams: Yeah, that’s what I’m getting at. That was a much more concise way to say what I’m getting at. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, that’s very cool. Let’s back up a second. You said that the thing you’re most grateful for is your addiction.

[01:10:26] Jordan Cunliffe: Yeah.

[01:10:26] Adam Williams: Let’s talk about why that is.

[01:10:29] Jordan Cunliffe: Oh, man. I. I think it totally shaped the way that I think about people, first and foremost. I met a lot of people that were in a similar spot, and, you know, they might look like the stereotypical addict Homeless person that looks like they’re just kind of like wasting away.

But when you, when you’re in those circles too, like, you get a really good insight into, like, dude, they’re just people that want to feel love and want to have a good life and want to get out of this rut, like, all the same, you know, but it’s, it’s, it’s really easy to like, see someone in that position on the street and be like, dude, why don’t they get their together? That’s gross.

[01:11:26] Adam Williams: Judge them.

[01:11:27] Jordan Cunliffe: Judge them. Yeah, but like, dude, they’re as equally human as we are. You know, they’re no less. And they are people that are just in a bad freaking spot and like, they would love to get out of it. And so you, you get to know, you get to know that. And so, like, when I, when I see people going through hard times, like, I’m not, of course I’m not. Perfect attitude. But like, I, I really try not to judge anybody for anything. Like, even my mom has been going through some, like, hard times with her relationship with her mom.

And she doesn’t love to hear it, but we talk about it. And I’m like, I get that what your mom’s doing is frustrating, but, like, your mom’s in a bad spot. I’m sure she doesn’t want to be making these decisions, but, like, she’s, she’s going through it. And when you’re going through it, you don’t make decisions. Like, it’s impossible for you mom to think that she would ever see the situation the way you do. Because, like, what she’s going through mentally right now and like, where she’s at with her mental health and her drinking and all this stuff, like, she’s seeing it so differently. And I know that because I’ve been in a bad spot. So it really has helped me shape, like, just understanding where people are coming from when they’re going through a hard time. And it’s not like, dude, when you’re going through a hard time, you’re not yourself. And so, like, I’m not going to judge you for something you do when you’re in a bad spot. You know, that’s been awesome.

[01:12:59] Adam Williams: Somebody who’s been through it, like we’re talking about with your story, for example, that’s somebody who has, like, I give, you know, there’s full credibility. Somebody who has, say, found religion because they’ve been through the fires and they came to this thing in what I would consider such an honest and real and raw Sort of experience for themselves that somebody whose religion and faith I trust more than somebody who’s just spouting the book because their parents did. Because their parents like somebody who’s lived and come through that fire, same with drugs or something like that. 

People who have lived these hard experiences to me have an incredible amount of credibility because this compassion you’re describing, this grace you’re describing that you have for other human beings, that’s because you have empathy and because of what you have experienced and learned and now you’re giving that back to the world. That’s how you’re walking through life probably the rest of your days. So how much good are you rippling? That’s my point is there’s a tremendous amount of value in somebody who can sit back and say, I’ve learned not to judge. This is why rather than somebody who’s sort of textbook based. These are the answers. I’m going to judge you with them. But they haven’t actually lived the thing and they fail to have compassion and empathy then.

[01:14:13] Jordan Cunliffe: Right? And it’s. Dude, it’s easy when you, when you haven’t been through something like that. Like when you now, and this is the part where it gets kind of dicey too, or for lack of a better term, but like the hardest thing that people have been through is like the hardest thing that they’ve been through. Right? Like, like I hope nobody has to go through what I went through, you know? So like when you, when I. To, to your point, it’s like when I watch somebody go through something that is like less stressful or than maybe what I thought was the most stressful. Right. 

It doesn’t matter. Like to them it’s the hardest thing that they’ve ever been through up until that point. So like you can’t, you can’t walk around and be like, well you didn’t have it as hard as I did, so like you shouldn’t be worried about like, it’s like, no, that’s the most difficult thing they’ve ever been through. It feels the exact same as the most difficult thing that you’ve ever been through. And, and so like, yeah, just trying to give people grace and not judge. And like every, everybody’s trying. You know why addiction is, was the best thing that ever happened to me too. If I can come back to that for a second. Sure. It really taught me because like, like I said, like I was not supposed to make it out. So like when I talk about the non judgment of people because of what I’ve been through and that outlook on life, but also like, dude, I really, like, maybe to a naive point, but like, I really believe in people. Cause like I, I was not supposed to get out, you know, and I did. And so like, when I, especially with coaching, it’s so cool to see. I really try to foster self belief and like, you don’t know what it’s gonna look like, but like, try it anyway. And if you fail, that’s okay. And like, because I don’t know about you and I’m happy to actually hear about this, but like, my whole thing in life for a long time, even with getting clean was like, yeah, but what if I failed? But yeah, but what if I fail now? 

I’m just like, well, now if you fail, like, who cares? You learn something and you move forward. And it’s so much easier for me to do that now, having gone through addiction. I like this past week, the past two weeks, dude, I’ve been so busy and so anxious and like, to be honest, not in like a super great spot, but not like wavering whether or not I’m going to relapse or anything like that, but I’m able to just be like, just one step at a time, dude. And if this doesn’t work out, you just move on to the next thing, you know? And like really trying to instill that in kids because I really think that they don’t understand. Like, I don’t people in general, not just kids, but my. The people that I’m able to speak about this most, most with is kids. It’s like, I don’t know that people fully understand what they’re capable of. And I don’t know that anybody has ever prior to my addiction, I don’t know that I told a single person, like, hey, I believe in you. Like, how often do we tell that to people? You know what I mean?

[01:17:11] Adam Williams: We’re worried about hearing it for ourselves, I think more than we’re thinking about how can I make somebody else feel lifted up and believing in themselves, right?

[01:17:19] Jordan Cunliffe: And so now I get to do that every day. And to like watch that is. I mean, dude, it’s hard to describe what that feels like.

But then it also makes me feel good too, you know? And so like, I’m not always perfect at it, but like this, everything that I kind of do professionally is not centered around me at all. And so like the shift that was, it’s like I need to stop worrying about how I look and how I’m perceived and all these things that I was like anxious and insecure about for so long, right? Because, like, for one reason, I now have the confidence. I’ve been, like, I’ve been through that fire. If you. And I’m here now if you want to judge me as a person, like, good for you.

I know I’m good with myself because I know what I went through. But then when you get to, like, kind of share that with other people and live, like, every day that I wake up is not about me ever. And I feel way better. Like, it is like an obsession of thinking. Like, I am always brainstorming. Like, how can I say that differently? Because I know that one kid didn’t. Didn’t take away the. The confidence from that talk that I wanted them to take away. Like, right, these four did. But I know that it didn’t register for that one. So, like, what can I say? Tomorrow that’s going to hit that kid? And, dude, when you live that way, it’s. It’s so freeing, you know, and really rewarding. And it works ironically for the people around you.

[01:18:56] Adam Williams: You know, you are now in a position for so many kids that it might be many years before you hear from some of them and you might not hear back from others, but at some point, somebody’s going to come to you and say, this is the thing you said to me when I was a kid. This was 20 years ago. Whatever it is, you changed my life. It’s not unlike that judge in drug court who said, why don’t you go coach?

[01:19:23] Jordan Cunliffe: Right?

[01:19:23] Adam Williams: That’s a positive thing for you to do with yourself. It had never occurred to you. And look how it’s changed your life, right? And you are that person for so many people. And that not only has an impact on those kids and the way they’re going to grow and shine and ripple in life going forward, but you’re that in our community. And so for that, I want to thank you and for this conversation.

[01:19:45] Jordan Cunliffe: I appreciate it, man. This is really fun. This is awesome.

[Transition music, guitar instrumental]

[01:19:54] Adam Williams: Thank you for listening to the We Are Chaffee Podcast. You can learn more about this episode and others in the show notes at wearechaffeepod.com and on Instagram at wearechaffeepod. 

I invite you to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I also welcome your telling others about the We Are Chaffee Podcast. Help us to keep growing community and connection through conversation. 

The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health. Thank you to Andrea Carlstrom, Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment and to Lisa Martin, Community Advocacy Coordinator for the larger We Are Chaffee storytelling initiative. 

Once again, I’m Adam Williams, host, producer and photographer for the We Are Chaffee Podcast. If you have comments, or if you know someone in Chaffee County, Colorado, who I should consider talking with on the show, you can email me at adam@wearchaffeepod.com. Till the next episode. As we say at We Are Chaffee, “share stories, make change.”

[Outro music, horns and guitar instrumental]