Jessica Oatman | Photograph by Adam Williams
Overview: Jessica Oatman is an artist, teacher, coach and surfer, among other things. She also has three teenaged kids who have homeschooled their whole lives. As a family of five, they got rid of their stuff many years ago and moved into an RV and then a camper, and took the adventurous road.
Jess talks with Adam Williams about the hardships and tragedy that inspired such a live now, live for joy mentality. They talk about the misconceptions people have about that kind of life – no trust fund here – and what the reality of her life as an artist, traveler and fun-seeker who spends 50+ days of the winter season snowboarding with her kids, for example, really takes.
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SHOW NOTES, LINKS, CREDITS & TRANSCRIPT
The We Are Chaffee podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health.
Along with being distributed on podcast listening platforms (e.g. Spotify, Apple), We Are Chaffee is broadcast weekly at 2 p.m. on Tuesdays, on KHEN 106.9 community radio FM in Salida, Colo.
Jessica Oatman
Website: Jessicaoatmanart.com
Instagram: instagram.com/Jessicaoatmanart
Instagram: instagram.com/thepaintedmouse
We Are Chaffee Podcast
Website: wearechaffeepod.com
Instagram: instagram.com/wearechaffeepod
CREDITS
We Are Chaffee Host, Producer & Photographer: Adam Williams Williams
We Are Chaffee Engineer: Jon Pray
We Are Chaffee Community Advocacy Coordinator: Lisa Martin
Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment: Andrea Carlstrom
TRANSCRIPT
Note: Transcripts are produced using an automated transcription app. Although it is largely accurate, minor errors inevitably exist.
[Intro music, guitar instrumental]
[00:00:12] Adam Williams: Welcome to the We Are Chaffee Podcast, where we connect through conversations of community, humanness and well being in Chaffee County, Colorado. I’m Adam Williams.
Today I’m talking with Jessica Oatman. Jessica is an artist, teacher, coach, surfer, among other things. She also has three teenaged kids who have homeschooled their whole lives. And from afar, it has seemed like Jessica and her family are so incredibly joyful and close knit. It’s inspiring.
There also has been extraordinary hardship and the need for resilience and that closeness in the family. So I talk about the full range of it with Jessica. What is it that inspires vibrant joy in her art and in the way she lives her daily life? What have been the heartbreaking challenges that called for that resilience?
We talk about some huge life changing experiences in her twenties and how they led her to choose to live for the now and to focus on happiness for herself and her family and sharing that happiness with others.
We talk about her growing up as the oldest of seven kids and as part of an extended military family, and about later choosing with her own family of five to get rid of the stuff and move into a camper for a life of adventure. We also get into the reality of her being an artist, spending every day having fun with her kids, snowboarding, river surfing, skateboarding, traveling.
And we talk about the misconceptions people often have about that unconventional family life of travel and fun and living the dream and the assumptions that there’s no way that they themselves could do it. At least not without hitting the Powerball, right?
The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public health. Go to wearechaffeepod.com for all things We Are Chaffee Podcast that includes episode show notes and transcripts. And it’s where you can subscribe to the email newsletter. Connect with us on Instagram. We are ChaffeePod. And if you want to reach me, details are in the comments at the end of the episode.
Now here we go with some inspiration from Jessica Oatman.
[Transition music, guitar instrumental]
[00:02:19] Adam Williams: Let’s jump into this with my jealousy of you, you know, from a distance, but I trust my perspective on this. You’re so smiley. There’s so much laughter, you and your family having so much fun and it seems really real. And I’m just kind of curious maybe what inspires that. But also, I think you have three teenagers in the house. Is that right?
[00:02:38] Jessica Oatman: I have. Yeah, I have three. Two girls and a boy. They’re 19, 16 and 15.
[00:02:44] Adam Williams: Okay. And I just. How do you even get everybody to get along and have so much fun together.
[00:02:50] Jessica Oatman: Well, we started off, like, really young when they were much, you know, infants into toddler years, just spending so much time as a family. So our main goal was to just basically have us all live outside, adventuring, exploring what was around us and just making sure that they grew up, that they knew that, you know, that their sibling was what’s going to be there for them all the time.
So just instilling that happiness and laughter of being outdoors with all of our kids and as a family was super important. So now they all like to. I mean, they get along, we all go ski, we all go raft, we do all the things together for the most part. And people will ask us, like, how is it that your kids get along? And really, that’s why, like, we really just instilled that, you know, togetherness from an early on stage.
[00:03:33] Adam Williams: I would like to say that I think we tried the same and it did not go as well. We even had a little book when my two boys were really young called Brothers Forever. You read it at bedtime, you read it whenever. And I’ve tried to instill in them your brother who is always there for everything. And yeah, it just hasn’t taken the same way. So that’s why I playfully say there’s a healthy jealousy that there’s just so much joy, it seems like, in your family. And I think it’s amazing.
[00:04:02] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, no, and there’s certain things that we don’t allow in our family. We have a no closed door kind of policy. Like we don’t allow them to go to their room and just close their door and spend time by themselves. Like, they know either we’re a family, we live in a small home, it’s like only 850 square feet. We also sold all of our stuff back in 2014 and hit the road in a camper.
So we had a 34 class, like a 34 foot class A and then moved into a 13 foot vintage camper. So we’ve always been around one another and they just have done well with it and so have we. You know, like, some people are like, oh, I can’t spend that much time with my kids. But really, I mean, that’s. You had kids, right? So you want to enjoy them and it’s better to include them in things. Whereas a lot of people would say they’re too young to go hiking or they’re too young to take to Disney World or they’re too young. But if you start from a young age, then they don’t know any different and they just grow up that way. So they’ve done well sleeping on the road and camping and doing all the things like that.
[00:05:00] Adam Williams: A 13-foot camper almost sounds like you can’t even measure the square feet for a family of five to live in it. And I want to get into some of that in a bit. But if we come back to, I’d asked kind of along the way here, what inspires the joy and for you, Is this somebody you’ve always been? Have you always just been somebody who’s happy, who’s, I don’t know, present in whatever adventure you’re having or, you know what, what really inspires that as you’re leading your family along the same path?
[00:05:29] Jessica Oatman: Oh, there’s been a couple different things that have probably changed my perspective on life. I mean, I’ve always been kind of an outgoing and happy person, but.
Well, our son was diagnosed with cancer back in 2007 and so he ended up getting leukemia. And so him seeing him battle through that also changed my perspective. And then my brother was killed in Afghanistan in 2009. And so at that point on that’s when I think as a family with my husband and I kind of decided to change our path in the way things were because, you know, everyone’s like, oh, the American dream. You got to have this job and a 401k and all this stuff. And we decided to just take the chance and the risk knowing that my brother died.
And so he never got what was going to come, like forward in the future for him. And then with my son, seeing a lot of his friends who passed away from brain cancers and stuff, it really just kind of opened our eyes and we were like, you know what, let’s just throw it all to the wind and we’re going to just hit the road and go see what is out there. And so you choose to live for, you know, today is how we are now, kind of so bringing happiness, sharing that with others and just not having like a negative view on life, even though a lot of negative has come our way.
[00:06:43] Adam Williams: How old was your son? Because he was very young. Right. I think that’s worth bringing up.
[00:06:48] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. He was two and a half. He was two and a half years old when he was diagnosed and he had acute lymphoblastic leukemia. And so he was diagnosed and we had to go to Memphis, Tennessee, to St. Jude is where we went with him. And then he battled for.
Till he was five. Five years old is when he took his last dose of chemo and so then he’s listed like cured at 10 years old. So now he’s 19. And so from all that time forward, we’d go every year back to Memphis and do checkups and make sure he was still in remission and all that kind of stuff.
[00:07:23] Adam Williams: That’s such a young age. And as parents, I mean, you must have been, were you in your 20s?
[00:07:31] Jessica Oatman: I was 27 when he was diagnosed. So we were only 26 and 27 years old when we had our son fighting cancer. And people are like, oh, well how did you make it through that? And really, I mean, you don’t have a choice, right? You’re just thrown into this. And I was coaching swimming at the time and had just gone to Columbia to go coach this big meet. I was the head age group coach for Missouri State at the time.
And I got the phone call from the doctor. It was like, hey, you need to take your son and you need to be to Memphis tonight. I remember being like in Tennessee, like Memphis, Tennessee, because we were living in Springfield, Missouri. And he’s like, yes. So I drove three hours back home, we meet at a McDonald’s with my in laws, pick up my son and we drive and we show up to like St. Jude at like 2:00 in the morning. And the hospital’s like quiet. And like right then, you know, it’s a whirlwind. You don’t know what’s going on, what’s going to happen. And from then it was just our whole life changed.
[00:08:24] Adam Williams: Why was it so urgent that that drive needed to happen right then?
[00:08:30] Jessica Oatman: At the time they were surprised that he was even walking like he was. So, so what happened initially was I went to go visit my family in Virginia and my son was just crying all the time, sleeping all the time. And I was like, what in the heck is going on with him? We went to the beach, he just wanted to lay in the sand. He wouldn’t do anything. And so I tried taking him to the doctor and I took him three times and it wasn’t until I went back to Springfield, Missouri that the doctor there was like, we need to run blood work. And so that’s the doctor. Then I was like, okay, well I have a swim meet, let me know. And so he called me and he’s like, this is urgent. He’s basically. It was on the verge of, I mean, he could die really at any time. So he needed to like have chemo and all this stuff done right away.
[00:09:12] Adam Williams: Did you have any other kids at the time? I don’t remember the age gap that you described. So.
[00:09:17] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. So believe it or not, the week prior I found out I was pregnant with my second.
So now I’m pregnant and now I’m fighting cancer with my son. And it was. I mean, it was hard at the time. I wasn’t allowed to, like, change his diapers because his chemo was so strong. So my husband would have to do that stuff because I couldn’t let it, like, go into my skin because I’m pregnant. And I couldn’t go back for some of the procedures and stuff because I was pregnant.
So things like that were kind of difficult. And then I have my daughter, and so I had to have three C sections, and so I have my daughter. So my husband flies home because my son’s now going through a high dose treatment. And so he flies home with me. We have this and, you know, our baby. And then he’s like, okay, I gotta go. So now it’s just me and my daughter. I just had a C section. He flies back to Memphis to go spend, you know, this, like, intensive treatment with him. Yeah, I mean, it’s a whirlwind to look back on and think, holy cow, how do we do this?
[00:10:12] Adam Williams: It does sound like an awful lot. And, you know, these big experiences, I think, in a marriage, in a partnership, whatever kind of relationship did you find with your husband that that helped draw you closer? Was that something that strengthened things or did the strain kind of. I mean, how did that feel to you at the time, do you think?
[00:10:31] Jessica Oatman: I mean, to be Quite honest, actually, St. Jude has like a lot of different resources and stuff. I mean, we didn’t use it per se, but they were always worried about divorce because when you have a kid with cancer, the divorce rate, like, skyrockets. But no, we never. I think we just have done it really well together. He would take care of one thing, I would take care of the next. And we just still managed to somehow make things work, you know, together.
Because then after that it was in 2009. So Montana’s still going through cancer treatment. I have now another a six month old baby. And then I am pregnant with my third. So I find out when McKenna is five months old, that now I’m pregnant again. Okay. And. And then my brother died. So now I have my son going through cancer treatment. A six month old at the time. And then my brother died. But my youngest daughter was born nine days after my brother died. So we just had this whole time, you know, and you think, oh, Lord, please. Just like, don’t hopefully it’s smooth sailing, like, from this point on, because right in the early stages of our marriage was just. So much was just thrown at us. So a lot of that really shaped who I have become.
[00:11:41] Adam Williams: I think there’s so much emotion going on. Both of those times you just described, you find out you’re pregnant within a matter of days. You find out what to me, as a parent would be some of the worst news I could possibly learn. Right. Is your son has cancer. This is extremely serious. And then the loss of your brother, and that is so much. And this is all before you hit 30.
[00:12:11] Jessica Oatman: Yes.
[00:12:12] Adam Williams: You’re the oldest of seven kids. Where was your brother in that lineup of age and how close were you with him as kids, if not young adults?
[00:12:24] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, so I was the oldest of seven and my brother was the fourth. So we like to give my mom a hard time because she had almost like two separate families, it feels like. So she had the first four of us. She had four by the time she was 24. So we were all super close, the four of us. So it was three girls and a boy. So Paul was the youngest of the four of us at the time. Then she had an eight year gap and had twin. My twin brothers. And then another eight year gap and had my youngest brother, Adam.
So I’m in college swimming. And she’s like, hey, by the way, you’re gonna have another brother. And I’m like, what? You know? But anyway, so there were seven of us, so Paul was the fourth. So he literally felt like in the middle. And him and I were super close. We were very close. He was my adventure buddy. If there was something bad that happened, it was usually him and I that were involved in it somehow. It’s like my dad saying, like, don’t take your brother and put him on your handlebars and go riding. You know, what did we do? We sure did. And we go over the speed bumps and he flies off and scratches and he’s like, what did I tell you? You know, so we just did so many, like, fun things together and we always planned on coming out to Colorado to come adventure here and. And do all the fun stuff like that. But, yeah, he was definitely my outdoor friend.
[00:13:41] Adam Williams: Was he in the Army?
[00:13:42] Jessica Oatman: Yes. So he was in the Army. He was stationed at Fort Eustis, so my dad was stationed at Fort Eustis as well. And him and my dad were super close as well, but he was a lightweight vehicle mechanic in the military and had gotten deployed to Kuwait and Iraq and then Afghanistan. So it was August 19th when I was actually, I was super fortunate because I lived in Missouri. And then Chris and I decided to move back to Virginia. So we moved back to Virginia and Paul happened to be coming home for his R and R at that time. So he, I got to see him.
He was like on a two week break. We did all the things. I was pregnant with Myla, my youngest at the time, and we went to the beach and I got to take family like photos for them and stuff for him and his wife. They had only been married for one year when he was killed. And so at the time before then I flew home, I did engagement photos for him. And in his photo he’s wearing, he just happened to be wearing the shirt that says living the dream. And so when he was killed, that photo was plastered like all over the news and I mean nationwide. Like his picture was everywhere. So that’s when I just decided like that I would live this life for him. He never got to. Now he died at 23 years old and we didn’t get to do the things that we had planned on doing and stuff like that. So I was like, you know, I can either turn this into a super negative experience, which it was. But going forward, I decided I need to, I wanted to live for joy for him. So everything I do now is living the dream.
[00:15:15] Adam Williams: Even though I was in the army myself and of course have known people who, you know, we’ve lost. I can’t imagine being in the family and you know, you’ve got seven kids, your parents, you know, however, all far this ripples out and getting that call, it’s just, it’s again the worst fear, right, is he’s there ostensibly for, for positive reasons, you know, that you all believe in. You mentioned your dad also being in the army. So, you know, we have a military, military family.
This is something that you all knew was a possibility. And at the same time, you know, when it happens.
[00:15:52] Jessica Oatman: Yes, yes, we get that. Believe it or not, people made that comment a lot in a negative like connotation, like, well, you knew this was a possibility, you know, and it’s like, well, yeah, when you get in a car, you could die, you know, that’s a possibility. You know, I mean, you don’t know when death is going to be knocking at your door. You hope that it’s not today, you know, but yeah, you’re right, it could happen. And for my brother, he wasn’t killed like by like an EOD and it was like not a firefight or anything along those lines. So for him it was actually just an accident. He was super kind. He’d give you the shirt off his back. He was so like helpful and he was really good at his job. He wanted to come back and he actually planned on getting out and opening up his own like car mechanic shop kind of thing.
So he happened to be. So he came, he was on. It was a Monday, he went to work on a Monday and was killed on Wednesday. So he’d only been back to Afghanistan for three days basically before he died. And somebody was having problems working on a vehicle and it was a forklift and they had hoisted it up in the air and so he’s like, oh, I’ll do it for you. Like it’s fine, get out of the way. I’ll show you how it’s done. And the chains happened to snap and they didn’t put the safety.
So whoever had it done did it wrong. Paul didn’t know this and so he was basically crushed is what happened. And so it was that Wednesday. I mean, I sat down to have a bowl of cereal and that’s when my sister called and was like, hey, Paul was killed. And so we all went over my parents house and yeah, it’s like just a day you don’t want to relive, you know, and it is like the movies. My dad saw the van drive down the street. I mean, my dad works for, has been in the military for many, many years and works with a lot of special forces and stuff. So he’s very well aware and he kind of already had an inkling then when he saw this van drive by.
So he knew. But you know, it’s like a day you just, you don’t want to relive that. Like I’ll never forget calling. We had to call my sister in law and had to lie to her basically because she was down in Virginia beach. And you don’t want to tell her while she’s down there, like, hey, your husband was killed. So he told her, like, wanted to have like this get together kind of thing. And, and she knew too. By the time she drove up and saw all of our cars there and everything, it was like. It’s probably one of the worst sounds you could imagine is to hear her screaming from outside.
[00:18:09] Adam Williams: But yeah, yeah, in military families this is, it’s a unique experience.
And I think, you know, like you said, sometimes people, there’s a lack of empathy and understanding to say, yeah, but he’s in the military. Yeah, he’s in war. Yeah, aren’t you? You know doesn’t that somehow remove the heart from it?
[00:18:32] Jessica Oatman: Oh, you should. I mean, some people even told my mom, like, well, at least you have six. Others, like, what the heck? You know, we aren’t goldfish. You know what I mean? Like, how do you even say. Like, how do you say that, you know, to somebody that each person is an individual and, you know, different personalities and it’s still your child. So here’s my parents who just lost their son, and then here I am in the hospital giving birth to their grandchild.
So it was a huge mix of emotions of, you know, like, you have your. And I like to think that maybe because my youngest, we named her Myla Paul, and she has a unique connection to him, even though she never got to meet him. She does a lot for him. Likes to wear the bracelets with his name and, you know, different things like that. So it’s like, I really wonder, you know, did they get to meet somehow before she came into this world while he was leaving? So definitely. Definitely a tough time for my whole family at that point.
[00:19:27] Adam Williams: So this military family that you grew up in, you moved, lived in some different places. I understand you lived in Germany a total of 10 years back and forth, and then your mother is even German.
[00:19:41] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:19:41] Adam Williams: So clearly then I assume your father met her when he was at some point stationed in Germany. Was your family similar to the one you’ve now created with your husband and your kids in terms of this joy and outdoor togetherness and all of the thing? Did you kind of grow up with that being the model?
[00:20:02] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, for the most part, I think I did. I grew up a very good life. I mean, a military brat.
But my mom is really the adventure person. My dad grew up the youngest of eight, very poor, never had a car, lived on the third floor, like apartment, no college. None of. None of his siblings did college or anything like that. So he joined the military to get out of that situation. That was, like, up in Lewiston, Maine, is where he grew up. Whereas my mom grew up also military. So my grandma’s full German, and I have family that live over in Germany still. So she met her husband when he was stationed there. And then my mom worked for my dad, my grandpa, and met my dad that way. So he also worked for my grandpa. So that’s kind of how they met. But my mom was the adventure one.
She grew up outside, traveling all over Europe, hiking and playing in the snow, and has just always had that, like, wonderless spirit of wanting to get out there and do things. So I knew growing up that, which is where swimming comes into play and the beach and all that stuff that no matter what got up, you put on a swimsuit. Because we were either going to the beach, to the pool, to the river, it didn’t matter what we were doing. I grew up around the water and she just has instilled that within our family and all of our kids so that I attached to that. Whereas, like my one sister did not. She’s not an outdoor person at all. She has no desire to hike, bike, do none of it. She’s the shopper. So that I didn’t take from any of that. That’s not me. And so, yeah, the joy has always kind of been there in that way.
[00:21:26] Adam Williams: You ended up swimming on scholarship at Missouri State University, but I wonder if you ever considered enlisting in the army yourself or if you would have had swimming not been a different kind of path for you.
[00:21:39] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, I was not ever going to probably join the Army. I did debate actually swimming for the Air Force, so that was one option that I had thought about. And I did have a friend that I swam with in Virginia who actually ended up doing that. But I really liked what Missouri State had to offer me.
My dad was stationed here in Colorado Springs at the time, so I had moved from Virginia my junior year of high school, went to school at Liberty High School in Colorado Springs, started swimming there. And then that’s when like letters started coming in my junior year for scholarship money. And Missouri State was starting a brand new women’s Division 1 program and they were offering me pretty close to a full ride. So I was like, okay, well, I’ll move to the middle of the country, even though I really wanted the beach. But yeah, so that’s where I. That’s where I ended up.
[00:22:24] Adam Williams: You didn’t think about going into the army for yourself. And I’m kind of curious what goes into that kind of decision. Obviously, you’re your own individual, all your siblings are as well, but you’ve already named so many people, referred to so many people in your family that the military life really is through and through. And so I’m kind of curious what maybe the coaching from your parents might be. What did they want for you? How do you decide?
That’s been great being part of this growing up, but that’s not my life.
[00:22:54] Jessica Oatman: I don’t know. Just don’t think that I didn’t want to be in the army for sure. Just being a female, hearing different stories and stuff, I just didn’t feel like it was right fit for Me, like, I didn’t want to do that. My brother joined the Army. My husband went in after my brother was killed. So that was kind of.
[00:23:10] Adam Williams: Oh, wow. That was after you were already together and had three kids.
[00:23:13] Jessica Oatman: Yes.
[00:23:13] Adam Williams: And he went into the Army.
[00:23:14] Jessica Oatman: Yes. He celebrated his 30th birthday at boot camp. Yeah. So that was a little bit more emotional, emotionally hard for me, because now I’m like, well, what if my husband dies? You know, my brother was just killed. My husband’s going in. My dad was still in the Army. My sister had been in the Air Force. Her husband’s in the Navy or was in the Navy. So, yeah, we have a huge military. Like, all. A lot of the branches are covered, except for the Marines, actually. But it was not something that I wanted to do. I knew if I was going to go into any branch, it was probably going to be the Air Force. But, yeah, it just wasn’t going to be a fit for me.
[00:23:48] Adam Williams: Was that a tough conversation with your husband when he decided after you’ve already lost your brother and you’ve already got three kids and you’re, you know, he’s turning 30?
[00:23:58] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:23:58] Adam Williams: I mean, this obviously, he still is young enough to go in, you know, by the rules. He still is accepted in all these things, but at that point, you also could say, “life has already kind of taken its course. Maybe this isn’t the way I choose.”
[00:24:12] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. We knew the benefits of being in the military, and it was something that we probably needed at the time.
It was like we needed a way out financially. Things were tough, and, you know, bills are piling up kind of situation. He wanted to join, to honor my brother in a way also. And he was just looking for something different for himself, and it ended up being a really good experience for us. He ended up being. What was he who worked on tugboats in the military, which is a very small branch.
[00:24:42] Adam Williams: Yeah.
[00:24:43] Jessica Oatman: So you can’t even really be stationed anywhere besides Fort Eustis, Virginia, Korea, and Hawaii. And I was like, well, if we go to Hawaii, I’m totally down for that.
But we didn’t end up going. He was in for four years, and he was medically discharged, and he. We stayed right there. So it was like, where we lived, he stayed. So I never had to move. I was still around my family. I still got to heal and be around with the grief of my brother. We did so much fundraising. I got to be involved with that with my dad. We raised $10,000 for a soccer field that was in that stall called, like, Dumont. Dumont Field. It’s in Williamsburg, Virginia. So we did that.
We’ve done all kinds of runs. We’ve been. He’s buried at Arlington National Cemetery. So I got to go there all the time while we were there. So it ended up working out for us in the best way possible. Montana was still going through treatment, and the St. Jude would fly us out there and see them, but.
Yeah. And he’d go to CHKD, which is in Virginia Beach. So we went to CHKD. So there’s just a lot going on.
[00:25:43] Adam Williams: What does that stand for?
[00:25:44] Jessica Oatman: Children’s Hospitals, King Daughter.
[00:25:46] Adam Williams: Okay. That is incredibly rare to go into the military. Stay right at home.
[00:25:51] Jessica Oatman: Yes.
[00:25:52] Adam Williams: Do all of your time there, it sounds like. Cause was he in for four years?
[00:25:57] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, four years, Yep.
[00:25:58] Adam Williams: So after he got out, then that’s getting close to the time when you all would sell everything and jump into an rv.
[00:26:06] Jessica Oatman: And it was at that point in time, I think it now been a couple years after Paul died, Montana finished his treatment, and we were like, it’s now or never. Like, we’re either. The kids are still young. When we decided to leave, I think they were 3, 4, and 7. And we were like, okay, let’s do it. Let’s sell everything. So we had huge, huge yard sales, threw stuff away, donated stuff. Yeah. It was kind of super freeing to get rid of all of your junk, you know, like, didn’t need anything. And I was just so ready for a new adventure, to just kind of. Let’s go do this.
[00:26:41] Adam Williams: Had you been sitting in kind of that experience that we’re talking about five years since your brother’s death? You’re with family. There is that grief. There is. You know, all of this with your life going on. Your kids, your husband going into the army, all of this sort of stuff. Maybe if I’m not reaching too far here, was it time for just. I need. I need a new chapter, Something that’s totally fresh. Let’s get a new start.
[00:27:08] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. Because it’s so easy to just get complacent with where you are and what you’re doing on the everyday cycle of things. And I’ve always. I take after my mom in that way where I don’t need things. I want experiences. And I always have always liked to adventure and be more wild and free. And Chris was kind. He’s the same way. And. But he grew up.
[00:27:30] Adam Williams: That’s your husband?
[00:27:31] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. So Chris is my husband. And he was born and raised in Springfield, Missouri. So never moved, hardly didn’t do anything, Just stayed right there. But I moved every three years of my whole life, so it was kind of like, I’m ready to go again. I don’t. I’m not used to it. So that’s why I have to laugh because this is the longest I’ve ever lived anywhere is right here in bv. And I’m like, really Beebe. Like, it’s such a small little community and. But anyways, we can get into that later. So, yes, it was like, yeah, 2014. We decided to just hit the road with our kids and didn’t know where we were going. I knew we were going to Florida first, so that’s where we went. I have always just wanted to go live by the beach and, yeah, I wanted to surf and live by the ocean and raise my kids there. So we did that.
Chris worked at Ron Jon’s Surf Shop down there, and it was an amazing winter. Kids were in swimsuits all the time. You know, it’s winter, it’s December. You have palm trees instead of Christmas trees. You know, it’s like super. It was just super great. And then Chris’s dream, though, and his passion was whitewater kayaking. So when I met him in Missouri, he always wanted to come to Colorado. And I was like, dude, no, I don’t want to go to Colorado. Like, I just left there, you know, But I lived in Colorado Springs and it’s just such a difference from Colorado Springs to living in the mountains, per se. So he got a job at a rafting place here at AE and raised our kids there. We were the first family to ever live on property.
Mike at the time was running it, and he’s like, Jessica, we’ve never had anybody bring their kids to come live at a rafting place. And I’m like, well, here we are. They get to meet all these, you know, bums, and we’ll see how it goes, you know. But it worked out great that they invited us back. So we left there, went back to Florida, lived in Florida again for a while, and then that next summer came back out to AE for the second. The second season. So at that point we had to, like, kind of make a decision, like, what do we want to do now? Like, where are we going to go? And ended up we had a friend who was renting a place here in town that wanted out, and we moved in and we’ve never left. So we’ve been here now for almost nine years.
[00:29:34] Adam Williams: How long were you living in the RV and camper in total?
[00:29:37] Jessica Oatman: Probably three years. We probably did it for three years.
[00:29:40] Adam Williams: And so it sounds like it wasn’t meant to be a van life kind of thing where you’re trying to, you know, tour all 50 states or whatever like that. It was just simply a different way of living, a smaller lifestyle, outside oriented lifestyle.
[00:29:55] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, yeah. Well, it’s. I mean, did I want to travel to all 50 states and live in a camper full time? Yes. But then you have to deal with the jobs and the money. And we weren’t. I mean, we’re not like software engineers or anything. We don’t have computer jobs. So getting income to continuous limit, like to continuously move in that way was always really difficult. So it’s like we had to job hop is what we did. So, like we’d work at Ranjan seasonally and we’d come here and work here seasonally. So everything was a seasonal, like job. So it didn’t allow us that possibility to just continuously move around.
[00:30:29] Adam Williams: I think that brings up a really interesting point for a lot of people when they look at, let’s say, somebody who’s following you on social media or something and they’re like, oh, she has this amazing life. Somehow these kids aren’t in school and they’re having this amazing life. They’re always, you know, they’re snowboarding, they’re surfing, they’re, you know, whatever, skateboarding. And I think people tend to get curious then and say, well, I can’t do that. You know, I can’t afford my bills and do that. So they must be trust fund kids or whatever, right?
[00:30:57] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:58] Adam Williams: So you’re bringing up, I think, what is a really common point of curiosity for people and maybe their envy sometimes where they’re like, how do you get to live this cool life that’s romantic and sexy and so much fun? Because I could never. But really what we’re talking about is you and Chris made decisions, you made choices. And I mean, tell me more about that. What has that taken for you to live this dream and not be bound to say what so many of us are, is this conventional 8 to 5. I have to have insurance, I have to have a mortgage. I have to have roots.
[00:31:33] Jessica Oatman: Right. The roots factor was not ever important to me. I didn’t need to. I don’t feel like I needed to set down any kind of roots so that I’ve. So it’s been easy to be like, okay, let’s just go. Let’s just go see what else was out there. And I love meeting people and making new friendships and having those experiences. As far as the money aspect of things. Well, I come from very. I don’t come from rich. A rich family. There is no trust fund over here or my parents give me allowance every week or anything like that. So we knew that we had to job hop to make that happen. We homeschool our kids and have. They’ve never been in a school setting.
[00:32:09] Adam Williams: Did you intend that from the beginning of life? Let’s say when you and Chris decided, hey, we want to have kids, this is how we want to raise our family. They’re always going to be homeschooled, or was that a decision because they were getting towards school age? Yes, you said 3, 4, and 7 years old. When you hit the road, that’s getting into school. And so that is kind of a critical point where a lot of people would say, oh, we missed our chance because now they have to go into school.
[00:32:33] Jessica Oatman: Yes, yes. Well, and now there’s just, I mean, there was two, you know, back in the day, I guess, but there’s just so many more opportunities now for education and different ways to teach them. But the reason we ended up homeschooling and starting that was because when Montana was going through cancer treatment, it was kindergarten age. And because of his immune system, we decided not to put him into school. So we kept him home. And I was like, you know, we’ll homeschool. Well, my mom at the time was also homeschooling my twin brothers and my youngest brother.
So my youngest brother is only three years older than my son. So they kind of grew up together and got to homeschool and go to co ops and things like that when we were living in Virginia. So that’s why we ended up keeping him home. And then when the girls came around, homeschooling was working for us, and I was like, okay, we’ll just homeschool all of them. And then while Montana, like I said, St. Jude offers so many different resources, that’s when they tested him and found out he’s dyslexic. So it was just a better fit for us to keep him home, work with him, get things, you know, situated educational wise.
And then when we hit the road, it just made it that much easier. So it was like, okay, well, this works for us now. We can school anywhere. You go to national parks, they have junior ranger programs. And I mean, there’s just so, so many opportunities out there. So we took advantage of all that kind of stuff. And then, yeah, now being here and, and then living this kind of life, it just really, it all just kind of encompassed everything and has worked out for us.
[00:33:57] Adam Williams: I’m curious what you used as sort of the method, if, for lack of a better word, for how you homeschooled if you followed a structure or not. And here’s where I’m coming from with this question was during COVID that I was with our two sons for two plus years with something called unschooling, which is unstructured and it’s kid or student led. What are your interests? And the idea with that philosophy is that you’re going to learn math or science along the way with your other interest and so on. So it wasn’t a super structured curriculum handed down to me by the state.
[00:34:31] Jessica Oatman: Right. We are 100% unschoolers.
[00:34:34] Adam Williams: I love that. I think it’s such an incredible way to go. Now I will say, you know, our kids are back in the school system. They made that decision. The younger one, I think, for social reasons, decided he needed to have more connection and he had more struggle with self motivation for how he wouldn’t say, oh, this is my passion. Let me dive into it. Whereas my older son had a passion with computers and using computers for all kinds of things. He built his computer at age 9 or 10. I mean, he, he loved this stuff and so he dove into it and I knew he could be content all day long.
[00:35:08] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:35:08] Adam Williams: How have you found that to be with your kids and, and how they can. I mean now, I mean, they’re really well along the way in their schooling and certainly your son at 19 is right.
[00:35:17] Jessica Oatman: Right. You know, people would always say, like, well, I just don’t know if I could homeschool my kids. I don’t know if I know what I’m doing. And really you learn along the way with them at the same time. So I mean, we’re always learning. And that’s what I tell my kids. Like, even I’m still learning. There’s things that I learn every day or, you know, if I’m interested in it, I’ll go and research it. And so just sharing that and passing that down to them on how to research. So as long as your kids can read, then they’re capable of learning absolutely anything. Then that’s on. You know, it’s on them as, especially in high school age.
So like my son, he’s now at like working at camps. He’s at Kanakuk. And I mean the comment we get all the time is your kids are super polite, respectful, they can hold a conversation with an adult.
And it’s like that’s. And I feel I I can say that’s because they have been around an array of different aged people. So when you homeschool or unschool, either way you look at it, they’re with little kids learning to babysit or teach these, you know, the younger kids how to read or to do math. But then at the same time, they’re with my friends or they’re learning like from, you know, at the rafting place. So there’s. If you can school them that way at home, then there’s an array of possibilities for them to get an education from absolutely anything. So they learn business. You know, if they’re going to hang out with, like, me doing my art business, they help me run that at times. Or McKenna did an internship with the Mount Princeton Riding Stables. I’m doing trail rides and my son is at the camps. And I mean, so it’s life. They’re living life. They’re just starting it at a younger age. That’s all.
[00:36:46] Adam Williams: I think that’s such a great way to put it is they’re living life and through life and living that we learn.
[00:36:51] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:36:52] Adam Williams: And I think so many of us, when we’re in the system and you’re following rules and, well, this is how you have to solve that math problem. This is how you have to do these things. I think a lot of, you know, after a lot of years of that, you forget how to think for yourself. I mean, I grew up with parents as teachers, and I was a sophomore in college and it was a friend who finally got the light to click on for me. Think for yourself. So when I was preparing for a test, it wasn’t just rote memorization. He’s like, think in terms of concepts. Actually think about the stuff. You’re not just trying to regurgitate and get through the hoops. So you get your degree, so you move on with your life.
[00:37:27] Jessica Oatman: Right.
[00:37:27] Adam Williams: And I don’t think that really should have taken a peer who was 19 or 20 years old to be the one to, you know, because I’d already had so many teachers and like I said, my parents were teachers.
[00:37:36] Jessica Oatman: Right, right.
[00:37:37] Adam Williams: So I love, like, you know, for your kids in particular, they’ve never been in that system.
[00:37:42] Jessica Oatman: No.
[00:37:42] Adam Williams: So instead what they’ve learned is how to think for themselves, how to problem solve.
[00:37:46] Jessica Oatman: Yes.
[00:37:46] Adam Williams: And with all the, the way you’ve talked about how this comes together, various jobs, you know, work ethic, but also you’re not averse to risk and like, you’re just instilling in them so many different values that I think Sets them up for so much more in life.
[00:38:04] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, yeah. I mean, and it’s allowed them, actually. So the girls also coach gymnastics at Arc Valley, so it’s allowed them to have these jobs and start a job even younger. Or Myla, who’s into art, she wants to start her own art business. So we’ve been, like, pursuing that. And she loves to make, like, cupcakes. And there’s just. They can start these. They’re going to learn because they’re starting businesses at a younger age. Even they have the possibility. Not that you can’t do that in school, but in school, then it’s like all the studying and the testing and.
But in reality, I don’t feel like they necessarily need to have that to be successful in life. I mean, there’s so. I mean, you can learn so much stuff just from YouTube. I mean, like I said, it’s changed over the years, and the education is beyond anything you can comprehend as far as, like, what your kids are going to eventually get to know, what they want to know. I mean, it’s there at their fingertips. And so I tell them, like, well, go research it. Don’t come to me to give you the answer. Instead, go online, Go look it up, you know, see what there is that you want to do. Then come to me if you have questions.
[00:39:05] Adam Williams: Yeah. You are an artist. As you’ve mentioned, your art is so colorful and vibrant, and there’s a lot of joy in that as well. Was that a change at all with this mentality, you know, going through the experiences we’ve already talked about when you took this life perspective? Live for now. Live with joy and like, tomorrow’s not. Not granted.
[00:39:27] Jessica Oatman: Right.
[00:39:28] Adam Williams: Did your art change at that time? Is that when you went into this particularly vibrant style?
[00:39:33] Jessica Oatman: Actually, no. I mean, really, I have always painted in color. Like, everything is always bright and vibrant. And I’ve always, like, I think I was in high school, I used to collect the sun. Like, anything with the sun on it, I wanted. It’s orange. Orange is my favorite color. Orange, yellow and pink, you know, it just radiates happiness. And those colors can change people’s moods. And so I just have always had that. Now I will say I never expected to be painting waves in the middle of a mountain. Like living in the mountains and painting surf art, that’s something that’s beyond me. I’m still, like, super thankful. Love to do it. So I thought I’d have to be by the beach to do that. And here I am getting into do it in bb you grew up with.
[00:40:19] Adam Williams: Some time in Virginia, some coast time, Florida, surfing, talking ocean surfing. Now you’re out here with the river. River surfing is a thing. I mean, I think, yeah, I’m not maybe super versed in this, but I do think that the Arctic Valley is a hub for river surfing. I think especially with Mike Harvey here who I’ve talked with on the podcast as well. And. Yeah, and, and the Scout wave down there, which I know you crush on. And. And so did you start river surfing here? Was this the first place that you got into it?
[00:40:49] Jessica Oatman: Oh yeah, for sure. I have never river surfed anywhere else. So what happened was when Chris wanted to move out here to kayak, I was really worried, like, well then I don’t get to surf anymore, you know, like I’m going to be in the mountains and that’s going to kind of suck. So I tried to find a way for me to get involved in the river and so I started to sup. I tried kayaking, just wasn’t my thing.
[00:41:12] Adam Williams: Stand up, paddle board on the river.
[00:41:14] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, so like down river. So like I said, I bought my first bad fish board back in Virginia, had it shipped out there and then we ended up coming out here in 2013 just on a vacation, like a trip. And I took a lesson through rmoc. I was like, okay, I could do this. Like this could be doable. So then when we moved here, that’s what I started on. Then I surfed for the very first time here at Staircase in BV. And it was on a sub, like a board, like a long board. My bad fish, like mvp, nine foot board, huge thing.
And I had a paddle and I just remember thinking if I could just get rid of this paddle, like, you know, I just want to surf. Like I just wanted to surf so bad. And while it, it rep, it doesn’t feel like the same to me. And then, so I just surfed Staircase for years. And then Scout, I guess Scout Wave was built two seasons, two years ago now. And it took me a little bit to get involved in it cause I didn’t have the right board for it. And. And then somebody was like, Jessica, you need to like come and try this. They let me use their board and that was it. Now I’m like, okay, now I never need to move. Now I can surf like all the time and I don’t have to worry about getting eaten by a shark or anything like that.
[00:42:21] Adam Williams: They are different hydraulics and something about the technique I imagine is different. I have yet to get into it. I’ve talked about that on the podcast that I have one of the inflatable river surfers from Bad Fish, and I’ve talked with Mike. He’s going to go out with me and help get me started because I haven’t leaped into it yet.
[00:42:39] Jessica Oatman: Right. I got some, you need to.
[00:42:40] Adam Williams: I got some of the gear off of one of the rental outfits, you know, cheap, and so I can, can be set up to go. And I still haven’t done it. So this summer, you know, I need to get with those of you who are into this and can give me the, you know, the courage and the techniques to get. But I wonder about what the difference is. When you have this experience with ocean surfing and you get on the river, do you go back and forth? So like, do you still get out to ocean and you’re like, oh, wait, I got to remember, how does it work here?
[00:43:09] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, it’s, it’s different as far as like obviously getting on the wave, popping up, because in the river the water is coming to you and in the ocean you’re going with it, you know, so the, that aspect is different. And also I feel like, I mean, ocean surfing is. You got the salt water, the salty air, you know, like, it’s just different in that way. And then you just, you wait, you sit out there and you wait for these waves, whereas here it’s always the wave is consistent, but now you’re waiting in a lineup, you know. And so getting to meet people, though, is what changes the river surfing here too. Because now you’re, while you’re waiting, you’re probably joking around, hanging out with people, talking about your day to day life or whatever. Whereas in the ocean it’s a lot different that unless you go out with somebody, then you can sit there and talk to them off and on. But that aspect is probably different too. Plus the river is, you know, it’s pretty dang cold.
[00:43:59] Adam Williams: Yeah. Yeah. You know, the vibe of the community, especially at the Scout Wave, is so amazing to me. Just so far as a spectator.
[00:44:06] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:44:07] Adam Williams: That whenever I’m in Salida and it’s, you know, the waves up and people are out there, it’s that season I want to go over and hang out and just be around the people. Even though I’m outside of the circle, it feels like.
[00:44:19] Jessica Oatman: Right, yeah, no, it’s been super great. I’ve met so many amazing people down there, created so many good friendships from it. Everyone has the same passion as surfing and then you just get to know them and then get to know their Life, and then now you start to hang out outside of it. So now we’ve gotten a group to skateboard, or now we go up to the mountain and snowboard, and it’s just been. Yeah, it’s been great to be down there and to. To get to know the community more, especially when it comes to surfing aspect.
[00:44:48] Adam Williams: You also snowboard, right?
[00:44:49] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:44:50] Adam Williams: So all things board.
[00:44:51] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, yeah.
[00:44:52] Adam Williams: So we got, you know, surfing down mountains, surfing on river, surfing in oceans, surfing in a skate park.
[00:44:58] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, yeah. It’s kind of funny because I was, like, 16, and I always wanted to learn to snowboard, and I didn’t get to grow up doing any of that, so my parents could never afford anything like that, and so moving out here. So when we did move out here and decided to stay, Chris got a job at Monarch. And so he eventually was running the lift department for a couple years. And because of that, because Monarch has such an amazing program for family, like, we all got to get a season pass, and so that’s the only reason we could afford to get into it then. So all of us. I was like, heck, yes. I finally, like, get to learn to snowboard. So you get, like. You get a free lesson, you get new season passes. We could put our kids on the ski team or the programs. And so then we just piecemealed all of our equipment to get to where we’re at. So it was like, okay, well, maybe this time we get new gloves or, you know, a helmet.
And it wasn’t like, we could just go out and then go, oh, we’re gonna. We decided to snowboard, so we’re gonna go buy all this stuff. You know, that definitely was not how it was for us, but so, yeah, I asked him. It was like, for my birthday one year. I was like, will you please take this lesson? Like, do this with me? He’s like. Because he kind of got. His dad used to teach skiing from Missouri State, which is so funny. And they’d come out here and go to Colorado with his, like, school program. So Chris got to learn to ski from a young age, and then he. His dad is masters, like, up in Bozeman, so he’s been like, the big sky in all these places where I didn’t grow up like that at all. So, anyway, so he took this lesson with me, snowboard for my birthday, and he’s never skied again yet.
[00:46:23] Adam Williams: Once I made the switch and I started snowboarding, I. I pretty much don’t touch skis at this point.
[00:46:29] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:46:30] Adam Williams: Uh, it’s just. I mean, I was always envious of the boots.
[00:46:33] Jessica Oatman: Well, that’s it.
[00:46:33] Adam Williams: Just look a lot more comfortable. Yeah, and they are.
[00:46:35] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he actually was medically discharged from the military because he has bad feet, so ski boots really killed him. So snowboarding boots ended up working out. And at the time we were in Virginia, we both got into long, like, longboarding, like downhill longboarding. And so it just. He had some of the board sport stuff going on. And then I just. I fell in love with it anyway, regardless, but I was okay. So snowboard. Here we are. Skateboard, you know, surf.
[00:47:00] Adam Williams: What’s the typical day look like for you? We’ve talked about art, you’re homeschooling kids, tons of fun out here in the mountains, living life, living the dream. What’s a typical day for you?
[00:47:11] Jessica Oatman: I usually wake up early, so dark early. Yeah, like. Yeah, dark, dark early. Like 4 o’clock early, so I can, like, paint and get things done. I usually try and paint for about four hours, four to five hours, depending on how much work I have to do and, like, what needs to be done. But. And then from there, my daughter will probably be like, mom, we gonna go to the mountain. So this is in the winter. Okay. And then it’s like, okay, well, let’s go hit the mountain. So then we’ll go snowboard for a while, then I’ll come back and then we’ll do chores and things that need to get done around the house or whatever. And then we go to work at gymnastics, usually, and then come home and then I paint again in the evening, usually for a couple hours. I’m not a night person, I’m a morning person. So I’d much rather wake up super early than stay up late. But, yeah, I’ll usually paint to like, 10, and then it’s the same thing the next day.
[00:47:59] Adam Williams: What is it you think that you’re teaching your kids through all of this? I can guess. I can speculate. I’ve kind of referred to some things. I think you’re teaching them incredible, you know, values about, you know, work and life and all these things. But what is it that you actually, maybe actively, as parents are like? This is what we want them to get from this whole experience, which is, you know, a bit unconventional for. Compared to most of society.
[00:48:23] Jessica Oatman: Yeah.
[00:48:24] Adam Williams: And, you know, American life anyway, really.
[00:48:28] Jessica Oatman: I want to teach them actually to be happy. I want them, like, to learn that life is gonna throw them curveballs and there’s gonna be so many ups and downs. But you take from that your. Your personality will affect it. But emotionally, I want them to walk away knowing that they’re going to choose the path that they want. And if they, if they want to be a negative about it, then they will be. And if they want to be, turn it into a positive experience. I just want them to be good people, really kind and happiness and share that with others, just to bring joy into the world.
So it doesn’t matter what people think of you. And that’s taken me a long time too. Like in high school especially. Those years are really hard, you know, where you think, oh my gosh, you know, these people are gonna make fun of you. They think this. But in the end, McKenna the other day was like, she’s like, mom. And even my son, he was like, you know, I just want to end up being like you. He’s like, where you don’t care what people think about you? I’m like, well, Tana, you know, that’s taken a. That’s taken a while. Like, that’s gonna take a bit.
And I know that you’re still growing and forming who you are, but yes, in the end, you’re gonna. People that don’t want to be around you, then they’re gonna walk away, and that’s fine. You’re not gonna like everybody. And. And I’m a people pleaser and so is he. So it takes a lot to, to have that mentality in life. But I think I’m totally. Obviously I’m at the stage now where I’m like, I don’t care. I mean, people know that I’m wild, crazy loud. You know, if they don’t like it, then, then that they don’t choose to hang out with me.
[00:49:56] Adam Williams: People say when we hit 40, that you can stop caring like that somehow there’s. In that time of life, that’s when you realize. And I’d have to say I’m getting closer to 50 and I’m still not there as much as I would like to be.
[00:50:10] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, I mean, life is hard, you know, I mean, truly it is.
You’re trying to raise kids, you’re trying to still live your life. You’re trying to do things that you want. And I guess in the end it’s, I. I keep thinking like, life is short. I’ve been shown this. I don’t know how many times how short life is. Like, you could walk out this door and. And that’s the end. So it’s kind of like, live for now is really what I, I want my kids to, to grow up knowing that they can just live in the moment and. And live a happy life. Like, you don’t have to do what everybody else is doing. Like, there’s so many different paths for you to take. So if you’re going to homeschool, unschool, go to school, like, it doesn’t really matter what job you take, if you want to travel or if you want to work here and be a doctor, you know, I mean, choose what’s going to make you the happiest.
[00:50:57] Adam Williams: Do you think they’re taking to heart the. Live in the now, live the dream that financial wealth is not necessarily the most important wealth for them to cultivate?
[00:51:10] Jessica Oatman: I don’t know.
That’s kind of hard to think about right now for them because they’re young. But, I mean, they have learned. They all have a job, they are all trying to save money. They all kind of have some sort of a plan.
But they also know, like, they know my story, and they’ve gotten to see some of it and live through some of it. The girls, obviously were much younger, but they’ve seen it play out because of what has happened, and they’ve been a part of that. So I do think that they do know to, like, live. Live for now, because we do talk about that quite a bit. You know.
[00:51:43] Adam Williams: Does your son, Montana, does he have memory of his experience with cancer and the chemo and all of that, or is that maybe a little bit more of a story told to him because he was so young?
[00:51:55] Jessica Oatman: Yeah. When we went to St. Jude, actually, the first thing they said was, well, your son is young, so he’s probably not going to remember much of this, which is a positive and a negative. And now we’re seeing the negative because it’s a positive, because he went through a lot of traumatic stuff. It got to a point where we would drive. Have you been to Memphis?
[00:52:17] Adam Williams: Yeah.
[00:52:17] Jessica Oatman: Okay, so you know that bridge that takes you over there?
[00:52:19] Adam Williams: Yeah.
[00:52:20] Jessica Oatman: So when we would drive towards the end of his treatment, he was going through because he had this horrible reaction to one of the drugs that he was on. He had to get these shots in his legs. Like, every two weeks, he would get these shots and they would burn, and they were. It was really bad. We had to hold him down, and so that would play. So as we would drive across this bridge, he would just. He would lose it, like, start crying and screaming and. And you, as a parent, you’re like, what do you do? You’re trying to help your child, but at the same time, you don’t want them to have to live through what they’re doing, but you want to help them to keep living. So anyways, now he’s at a point, though, where he doesn’t remember that. So he was two and a half, three.
So he’s probably three and a half at the time when he was actually going through that part of it, and he doesn’t remember it. And at the same time now he just said last month, mom, I really wish I could remember more of my treatment. But at the same time, you don’t want them to remember that. But he does remember it, because we would go every year. And so he would. As he got older and throughout it, he could now help give back to these kids that were there that were fighting for their own life. So he could volunteer and do different things. So he loved that part. Handing out toys. Like, every year they do, like, a toy drive kind of thing where the kids of St. Jude and their siblings all get a toy from. Sponsored by Target. And so he got to help with stuff like that. So he does love to give back, and that has impacted him in a positive way. But, no, he doesn’t remember much of the treatment, and he kind of does wish he remembered some of it.
[00:53:47] Adam Williams: What is some advice that you have? If I circle back to when I said people probably perceive you as living this dream and how easy it must be when it’s really not, you know, it’s not. But they see that you are living by your heart and joy and family love and all those things. For those who think they can’t do it, what is your advice about? You know, I really think you can.
[00:54:13] Jessica Oatman: Yeah, I know, right? Because everybody. Everybody views their life so differently, really. I would say if you want to do it, you know, then you have to be willing to take the risk. So we were willing to risk, you know, giving up our house, giving up where we were at, not putting our kids in school.
You have to make the sacrifices, you know, to. Because people would. I mean, when we started doing it, we decided to sell everything and hit the road. There were many people were like, yeah, that’s not gonna happen. Like, you’re not gonna be able to make that work, you know? And I was like, oh, come hell or high water, now I’m gonna make this work. Like, you don’t tell me that I can’t do something. That’s like, one of my pet peeves, you know? It’s like, okay, well, now I’m gonna show you that we can do this. So we just were willing to risk it all.
I guess, you know, give up everything and just kind of see what was out there. And so for other people, I mean, they can do the same thing. It’s just if they want to, like, do they want to take their kids out of school to make it work so you can live on the road? Do you want to work maybe a seasonal job? I mean, obviously for some people. Most of the people that we did meet on the road had a job that had to do with computers, so that made it easier for them to continue to travel. Because your job then is anywhere and you’re working remote now. So many people work remote, remote. That really, the opportunity to do it is even easier than it was, you know, back then.
[00:55:36] Adam Williams: You can live with less and live more, I think, is one of the.
[00:55:40] Jessica Oatman: Ways to look at it. Yep, yep. Yeah, live. Live with less so you can live more. Yeah, for sure.
Don’t be. You don’t. You don’t want to be, like, struggled and just weighed down with all of your stuff, like, you know, because in the end, you can’t take it with you. Right? And so that’s where we have raised our kids to. And we’ll tell them, like, if they want to buy something. I’m like, well, do you really need that? Or you want. You want me to take you to the Great Wolf Lodge, or you want me to take you to, you know, to Copper, or. So it’s like you would rather. And they’re like, yeah, you’re right. I’d rather go have fun and do that than buy this new sweatshirt. And I’m like, yeah, so you just gotta weigh, like, what you want. Now, my sister, she would choose the sweatshirt. She’d be like, nope, I don’t need to go, you know, hang around or anything like that.
[00:56:26] Adam Williams: So thank you for all of this, Jessica. You know, again, I think your family is inspiring, and I playfully say I’m jealous, but, you know, I’m also grateful in recognizing that we get to live here together and share this sort of space. And I look forward to also when you can show me how to surf the river.
[00:56:43] Jessica Oatman: Oh, for sure. You let me know. It’ll be so good.
[00:56:47] Adam Williams: Thank you.
[00:56:47] Jessica Oatman: You’re welcome.
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[00:56:54] Adam Williams: Thank you for listening to the We Are Chaffee podcast. You can learn more about this episode and others in the show notes at wearechaffeepod.com and on Instagram @wearechaffeepod.
I invite you to rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. I also welcome your telling others about the We Are Chaffee podcast help us to keep growing community and connection through conversation.
The We Are Chaffee Podcast is supported by Chaffee County Public Health. Thank you to Andrea Carlstrom, Director of Chaffee County Public Health and Environment, and to Lisa Martin, Community Advocacy Coordinator for the larger We Are Chaffee storytelling initiative.
Once again, I’m Adam Williams, host, producer and photographer for the We Are Chaffee Podcast. If you have comments, or if you know someone in Chaffee County, Colorado who I should consider talking with on the show, you can email me at adam @ wearechaffeepod. Until the next episode, as we say at We Are Chaffee, “share stories, make change.”
[Outro music, guitar & horns instrumental]
